sick of that jackass who writes for NMLRA

[slowpokebr549]

You know, I would be happy if they would just let me use my .32 for turkey. Of Course then you would see an influx of inline .32s shortly thereafter. Hmmmmm.....

 

[kevthebassman]

I can see 'em now. They'd have bull barrels and use saboted 180 grain nosler partitions.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Wouldn't a 1" Renegade barrel in a 32 cal be a bull barrrel? :thumbsup:
Ron

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have never, ever suggested doing away with the primitive season. Quite the opposite. I have always advocated returning to the true spirit of the primitive season--hunting the old way using the old fashioned firearms. Ending the primitive seasons won't put an end to the in-lines as they can be used in the modern seasons, too--which is where they belong. Ending the primitive seasons to save the primitive hunters is a bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
THE PRIMITIVE SEASON IN ORDER TO BE TRULY A PRIMITIVE SEASON SHOULD BE OPEN ONLY TO THOSE HUNTERS WHO USE TRADITIONAL SIDELOCK FIREARMS LIKE OUR ANCESTORS USED. PERIOD. AMEN.
I do not see how this concept can be made any clearer. It is not about adapting a special primitive season to include non-traditional weapons or ending the primitive season in the hope that by destroying what we are trying to preserve we will save it. I am at a loss to explain this in any simpler terms.

Please don't take this wrong I am not being mean.
Simple question should this gun be legal?

Another simple question. shold this gun be legal?

Last question. If in your mind they should not be legal guns in a traditional hunt, Why? is it the color, or they way they look?
Anyone is welcome to answer the Questions. Please I would like to know what others think. :wink:
Ron

Ron there is nothing wrong with what your hunting with.
In fact I applaud Idaho's ruling because it equalizes inlines with trad hunters. I don't care if folks take to the woods with a all lead conicle bullet, loose powder, peep sites with a exposed nipple because the effective range puts it in the primitive weapon range. I also know many who feel underguned with a PRB thats fine I have been shooting all lead conicles for twenty five years.
I don't agree with scopes, pellitized powder,sabots etc.. I mean come on there is no way sombody can look me in the face and say that is primitive or even remotely traditional.

Well said Ron and GB....I guess I dont understand the prejudice agenst LOOKS. Some of these guys sound like they are on the commity for the "Brady ""Assult Rifle"" ban"...It LOOKED mean? I could quote dribble about plastic stocks, Silver barrels, and NOW camo clothes....Function be danged.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

We get it. You don't understand. And you never will. Enjoy your plastic and stainless steel, scoped sabot tossing wondergun and be sure to give Toby Bridges a big wet kiss the next time you see him.
But don't you dare compare people who care about tradition and the old values to that Brady trash. As a member of the N.M.L.R.A. and a Life Member of the N.R.A. that is an insult that is only going unanswered because you are a continent away.

 

[chuck-ia]

I wish the game depts. would cater a bit to us trad. hunters, shooters. We are the ones interested in history and such, I think most of us shoot our muzzleloaders throughout the summer, some just to shoot, others to prepare for hunting season. The inline hunters are too busy playing golf, racing and such to be bothered shooting their inlines, heck it ain't even August yet. I allso think these guys feel they have to get a deer, so a scoped sabot shooting gun gives them more confidence, they have no interest in hunting with a gun with limited range. As many have said before, it's all about money, the more inlines and sabots these companys pump out the better. flinch

 

[tg]

I think what bothered me the most was when I talked to an old timer a few tears back who had worked and lobbied for years to get the game comission to open some ML seasons(I don't have to tell you what type of ML's everyone was using and planned on using in the new seasons) he spent a lot of time and effort pioneering the way for all the ML hunters who would follow in this state, and he told me he doesn't even put in for a tag anymore because there are so many more hunters than tags( I also don't have to tell you what kind of gear the additional hunters applying for tags use)

 

[tg]

"Function be danged."

Function is a big part of it as is form, a sidelock with modern sights and shooting modern bullets has neither the form or function of the traditional gun and gear, not that they are bad just not traditional in form or function, I don't know why people can't just use them without haveing to try and hang the traditional nomenclature on the stuff, if it is important enough that one has to mention that his gear is "traditional" then it should be important enough to get it right, the only ones being fooled are themselves and those who don't know a ML from a hole in the ground.

 

[biliff]

I talked to an old timer a few tears back

That has GOT to be a Freudian slip :wink:

 

[tg]

"That has GOT to be a Freudian slip'

Could be.... the exchange was an emotional one for both of us though niether of us would say so...

 

[paulvallandigham]

The more I read this thread, the better the suggestion we lobby to close the special ML seasons in states where they are allowing zip guns to be used. I do think someone has the right idea about these guns. If there is no more " special season", and these guys are faced with using these zip guns in the regular firearms season, rather than have an " Advantage " in the ML season, they will get rid of these guns, and used modern rifles, or shotguns shooting slugs, in those states where high power rifles are not allowed. That will put this entire industry out of business, because they cannot compete with modern guns for these people's dollars without the " Edge " hype that goes with the sales.

Maybe the way to defeat these people is to simply lobby for extending the regular gun season, where we can hunt with any firearm we desire, and cancel the special, ML season. ( For me, that will be my flintlock.) :hmm: :surrender: :blah: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

I do think that if we were to take this stance, by boycotting the ML season- the state will notice that we are not buying the permits, or bidding on them, combined with a letter writing campaign, both to the department, and to the state legislators, the squeaky wheel will get some grease.

I use my flintlock during the gun season, now, as it is. I almost never try to also get a ML season permit, because it has rarely fit my schedule so I can take that time off. It would be nice, of course, to have the woods to ourselves for a true primitive hunt for traditionalists, only . But, the State is not going to let us have that.

They want to make money selling permits, and they need to kill enough deer annually to reduce highway- deer accidents. Its the Auto Insurance Industry that has the financial clout these days to make the Game departments increase sales of deer permits, in order to reduce the accident claims the industry has to pay each year. If we all scream loud enough, together, the State will begin to listen.

 

[Little Wattsy]

"Function be danged."

Function is a big part of it as is form, a sidelock with modern sights and shooting modern bullets has neither the form or function of the traditional gun and gear, not that they are bad just not traditional in form or function, I don't know why people can't just use them without haveing to try and hang the traditional nomenclature on the stuff, if it is important enough that one has to mention that his gear is "traditional" then it should be important enough to get it right, the only ones being fooled are themselves and those who don't know a ML from a hole in the ground.

With all due respect, and I mean that TG I dont think meny of the Hunters and certianly not ME is naming anything TRADITIONAL necessairily; Most of that is comming from the other side of this discussion. As a HUNTER (PERIOD) I dont know if my TC Hawken, Renegade, Grey Hawk (Stainless and synthetic YET SAME functioning parts as the previous two) or my CVA Mountian Rifle are Traditional or NOT and quite frankly dont care. They ARE ML's, the ARE legal, and the ARE fun. Good enough for me. I like PRB's fine I like conicals better ( I prefer the muscle car to the rice burner too :grin: ). The are both legal, leathal, and fun. Works for me. What or how you shoot will NOT impress the deer I tag this year at all. :shake:

BUT......IF, and I'm not, but IF I was a re-eanctor trying to portray the events in the cival war or the life of ole Danial Boone THEN "APPEARANCE" might carry more merit. As it is however, it seems to me like some are saying that black shouldnt be used cuz it dont LOOK as proper as white.

I am NOT saying that scopes, pellet powder, water-proof breaches, fiber optic sights, or sabots should be allowed cuz they ACTUALLY DOOOO provide a differant advantage in the woods; The material your stock is made out of does NOT!

 

[tg]

"I am NOT saying that scopes, pellet powder, water-proof breaches, fiber optic sights, or sabots should be allowed cuz they ACTUALLY DOOOO provide a differant advantage in the woods;"

Are you saying that a Renegade with a modern micro click peep sight and a modern design conical bullet offers no advantage ofer a period type sidelock with primitive diopter sight and early style conical bullet?

if they are equall why doesn't anyone use the original type stuff? and yes many things are leagal but not in the spirit of the sport but most of the modern gear users have no interest in that.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Are you saying that a Renegade with a modern micro click peep sight and a modern design conical bullet offers no advantage ofer a period type sidelock with primitive diopter sight and early style conical bullet?

If you compare my Renegades with the up grades against a Whitworth, I would say NO! The Renegade has no advantage. The only reason I am not using the Whitworth is because of the extra price. The rate of twist is about the same, the length is about the same, and my rear sight is no where near as good as the Whitworth.
Now If I were using a Whitworth would you still complain? They are a mid 1860's rifle. Ron

 

[44-henry]

I will say that I do know hunters that started with inlines that moved over to more traditional guns after they hunted with them for awhile.

I personally don't have much interest in the modern inlines, but if you really want to get technical the concept existed before the 1800's and there was even an original 1800's era percussion inline posted on this board not too long ago and I'm not talking about an underhammer. But since were on the subject underhammers and sideslappers basically give the same ignition qualities of the new "space-age" inlines that everyone is talking about.

As far as projectiles go conicals aren't new either and probably were more popular with hunters post 1850 than roundballs were.

In the end I can share the woods with these people and think the arguements are doing more to weaken the sport more than anybody really wants. There are way to many liberal idiots out there that want to take away every gun that exists in this country and I really would ask yourselves how much you are willing to help them in their mission.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Oh for crying out loud!!! :barf:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Usually the argument about The 19th century in-line percussion guns pops up much earlier in these discussions along with some clever devil's mention of the in-line flintlock. These guns were abberrations and most folks weren't even aware of them. Henry the VIII had a breech loading wheel lock that predates these guns by centuries, but that doesn't mean that folks in England were familiar with them--or that it even worked well. This argument is akin to an archaeologist 200 years in the future finding a Barrett .50 BMG caliber sniper's rifle and concluding that because it existed it must have been in common use by the populace.
What I find sad and deplorable is the number of people who find it necessary to voice their strong support for in-lines on a traditional forum. Just a few years ago this didn't happen, but like an insidious and virulent disease it is now commonplace. It seems Toby and his disciples are getting their message out and their congregation is growing.

 

[tg]

it is amazing on just how thin of a thread connected to the past in terminology only not performance or practicality some will try to justify and equate the modern guns/sights/and bullets to the originals, it is quite simple if one lets it be...a 1840-60 sidehammer/inline/undewrhammer ML with a diopter/peep of the time and an early design conical bullet is a different setup than a sidehammer gun of similar style or not with a modern micro click peep and a high performance bullet designed using modern tech. and it is not just appearance it is also performance, just like todays trains and power boats are a lot different than those of the past, maybe it is just to simple for some to grasp the concept that many of todays outfits even if in a sidehammer are equal to some centerfires with the improved sights and projectiles.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I will say that I do know hunters that started with inlines that moved over to more traditional guns after they hunted with them for awhile.

I personally don't have much interest in the modern inlines, but if you really want to get technical the concept existed before the 1800's and there was even an original 1800's era percussion inline posted on this board not too long ago and I'm not talking about an underhammer. But since were on the subject underhammers and sideslappers basically give the same ignition qualities of the new "space-age" inlines that everyone is talking about.

As far as projectiles go conicals aren't new either and probably were more popular with hunters post 1850 than roundballs were.

In the end I can share the woods with these people and think the arguements are doing more to weaken the sport more than anybody really wants. There are way to many liberal idiots out there that want to take away every gun that exists in this country and I really would ask yourselves how much you are willing to help them in their mission.

:applause: :applause: :applause: EXACTLY!

 

[Claude Mathis]

The more I read this thread, the better the suggestion we lobby to close the special ML seasons in states where they are allowing zip guns to be used. I do think someone has the right idea about these guns. If there is no more " special season", and these guys are faced with using these zip guns in the regular firearms season, rather than have an " Advantage " in the ML season, they will get rid of these guns, and used modern rifles, or shotguns shooting slugs, in those states where high power rifles are not allowed. That will put this entire industry out of business, because they cannot compete with modern guns for these people's dollars without the " Edge " hype that goes with the sales.

I've been saying that for some time. I would hate to see the "muzzleloading seasons" disappear, but on the other hand they are not what they set out to be. If I were in an "Antique" car club and they started allowing model "A"s with V-8's, lowered in the front, with chopped tops and chrome rims, I'd say it's time to dissolve the club.

Let me quote myself from some time ago...

I have to think that the only reason people by in-lines is because of the extra hunting season. If there were no "muzzleloading season", there would be no reason to purchase an inline. They aren't being purchased for what they are, as much as when they can be used. Do away with "muzzleloading season" and the in-lines will disappear.