sick of that jackass who writes for NMLRA

[jethro224]

Wanting a special season to shoot a flintlock is like wanting a special road for your antique car. Just drive the damn thing and enjoy it. :v

And bringing a scoped, sealed ignition, modern rifle to a Primitive hunt is like riding your motorcycle on the bicycle trail.

The special seasons were designed to help even the odds with more time and less pressure for those who choose to hunt with a weapon that gives them a handicap. Open sights, open ignition, single shot, relatively short-range, Primitive style weapons.

The game departments should have just lengthened the regular season if they needed to thin the deer herds. Instead they choose to sell more ML tags and rake in more $$$. (Maybe they oughta change it to "single-shot season".)Can't really blame the hunters who take advantage of the situation to get an extra tag. Still doesn't mean it's right.

 

[brubincam]

-----some people are just thick headed----- :yakyak: :yakyak: :yakyak:

 

[wirehairman]

I cannot speak for others, do not know particulars of other states, but love Montana's aproach. ML's can be used during our general season, which is generously long at 5 weeks. There are no special ML seasons, but we do have several ML only areas. For these ML only areas, the Montana Fish & Game has defined a ML as:

Muzzleloader:
There is no special season for muzzleloaders. A muzzleloader:
Ӣ must not be capable of being loaded from the breech of
the barrel;
Ӣ may not be loaded with any prepared paper or metallic
cartridges;
Ӣ must be charged with black powder, pyrodex, or an equivalent;
Ӣ must be ignited by a percussion, fl intlock, matchlock, or wheelock mechanism;
Ӣ must be a minimum of .45 caliber;
Ӣ may have no more than two barrels; and
Ӣ must only use lead, not sabots.

I hunted with only my ML last year and harvested 5 deer. I never once felt handicapped by the guy down the drainage with his decked out .300 mag. To each his own . . .

As an aside, I've never seen an in-line anywhere but on the store shelves here. I guess the lack of a special season or additional tags combined with the fact that they cannot be used in ML only areas removes their luster.

 

[Zonie]

And in the article in Muzzle Blasts the guy said that this subject was, "...also controversial in some quarters and some enthusiasts would also like to see them changed...".

Boy ! I think this post sure proves him wrong!!
:haha: :rotf: :rotf: :haha:

While I'm mentioning the article that started this, the entire article was simply an alert to anyone that is considering Muzzleloading hunting in the various States to tell them they need to find out exactly what the requirements currently are.
The author did not take sides with any of the laws and he certainly did not promote the use of modern style rifles.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have never, ever suggested doing away with the primitive season. Quite the opposite. I have always advocated returning to the true spirit of the primitive season--hunting the old way using the old fashioned firearms. Ending the primitive seasons won't put an end to the in-lines as they can be used in the modern seasons, too--which is where they belong. Ending the primitive seasons to save the primitive hunters is a bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
THE PRIMITIVE SEASON IN ORDER TO BE TRULY A PRIMITIVE SEASON SHOULD BE OPEN ONLY TO THOSE HUNTERS WHO USE TRADITIONAL SIDELOCK FIREARMS LIKE OUR ANCESTORS USED. PERIOD. AMEN.
I do not see how this concept can be made any clearer. It is not about adapting a special primitive season to include non-traditional weapons or ending the primitive season in the hope that by destroying what we are trying to preserve we will save it. I am at a loss to explain this in any simpler terms.

Please don't take this wrong I am not being mean.
Simple question should this gun be legal?

Another simple question. shold this gun be legal?

Last question. If in your mind they should not be legal guns in a traditional hunt, Why? is it the color, or they way they look?
Anyone is welcome to answer the Questions. Please I would like to know what others think. :wink:
Ron

Ron there is nothing wrong with what your hunting with.
In fact I applaud Idaho's ruling because it equalizes inlines with trad hunters. I don't care if folks take to the woods with a all lead conicle bullet, loose powder, peep sites with a exposed nipple because the effective range puts it in the primitive weapon range. I also know many who feel underguned with a PRB thats fine I have been shooting all lead conicles for twenty five years.
I don't agree with scopes, pellitized powder,sabots etc.. I mean come on there is no way sombody can look me in the face and say that is primitive or even remotely traditional.

There are guys on this forum that think these rifles are the same as inlines. Well I take some of that back. If I load them with a conical I have made, they think these guns should be banned from all Traditional hunts.
I am a Hunter that uses traditional rifles, and conicals. I am not a traditional guy that hunts. If you see me in the woods I will have Camo, and gortex. If others want to use the whole package I think it is cool, but not for me. It is the guns that interest me. Ron

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I don't see anything wrong with using conicals. Personally, I would only use them in a rifle-musket myself, ie: Minies, but using a Maxi or REAL type projectile is fine. I tried them in my Hawken--a true copy, not a T/C--and it shot them as well as my friend's T/C did. A sidelock in no way resembles an in-line. I think people may get confused when they see a stainless steel and black polymer stocked sidelock rifle and equate it with modern muzzleloaders.

 

[Geraldo]

I hunted with only my ML last year and harvested 5 deer. I never once felt handicapped by the guy down the drainage with his decked out .300 mag. To each his own . . .

Amazing...you mean it's the hunter, not the hardware?

Where I came from, we thought muzzleloaders were an improvement over smoothbore shotguns with Foster slugs. All that time I never owned a fancy cartridge gun I never knew how handicapped I was.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I don't see anything wrong with using conicals. Personally, I would only use them in a rifle-musket myself, ie: Minies, but using a Maxi or REAL type projectile is fine. I tried them in my Hawken--a true copy, not a T/C--and it shot them as well as my friend's T/C did. A sidelock in no way resembles an in-line. I think people may get confused when they see a stainless steel and black polymer stocked sidelock rifle and equate it with modern muzzleloaders.

Russ, I paper patch bullets. I shoot about anything that will go down with a paper skin. I don't care what it looks like as long as it is accurate. Ron

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Some people don't understand the term "primitive" or they willfully choose not to. History, tradition, and the methods and ways of the past mean nothing to them. We now have several pages devoted to this and still there are those cannot grasp a very simple concept. These people are fair game for the makers and marketers of the modern muzzleloaders and the junk that goes along with them. This is a traditional muzzleloading site and it makes me wonder what they are doing here. It seems to me they'd be happier on a site that caters to the in-lines they seem to support so ardently.
And yes Geraldo, it is the hunter and not the hardware. No one has ever stated otherwise. This discussion has been about hunting seasons and what firearms should be allowed in a PRIMITIVE FIREARMS season. As has been stated several times it is a very simple concept that many seem unable to grasp etcetera, etcetera, etcetera :barf:

 

[tg]

" using a Maxi or REAL type projectile is fine'

That is exactly what created the modern ML, they would not be here is the hunting seasons were restricted to PRB and fixed/period type sights.

 

[Pork Chop]

This discussion has been about hunting seasons and what firearms should be allowed in a PRIMITIVE FIREARMS season.

Then based on this statement, this discussion would not apply to many states. Florida does not have a PRIMITIVE FIREARMS season - we have a Muzzleloading gun season. While I agree that the original intent of the seasons were to be for those that choose to shoot with a primitive firearm, the reality is that it is not the case anymore. The season in Florida is for almost any frontstuffer. The electrically fired guns are not acceptable during that season, but almost anything else is. The manufacturers have realized that if they reinvent the inline every year, they will have folks that buy them. Heck, you can get a new one with most of the stuff to fire it for $150 or so. At that price, I bet a bunch end up rusting to death since they never get cleaned after the season...

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I have never, ever suggested doing away with the primitive season. Quite the opposite. I have always advocated returning to the true spirit of the primitive season--hunting the old way using the old fashioned firearms. Ending the primitive seasons won't put an end to the in-lines as they can be used in the modern seasons, too--which is where they belong. Ending the primitive seasons to save the primitive hunters is a bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
THE PRIMITIVE SEASON IN ORDER TO BE TRULY A PRIMITIVE SEASON SHOULD BE OPEN ONLY TO THOSE HUNTERS WHO USE TRADITIONAL SIDELOCK FIREARMS LIKE OUR ANCESTORS USED. PERIOD. AMEN.
I do not see how this concept can be made any clearer. It is not about adapting a special primitive season to include non-traditional weapons or ending the primitive season in the hope that by destroying what we are trying to preserve we will save it. I am at a loss to explain this in any simpler terms.

Please don't take this wrong I am not being mean.
Simple question should this gun be legal?

Another simple question. shold this gun be legal?

Last question. If in your mind they should not be legal guns in a traditional hunt, Why? is it the color, or they way they look?
Anyone is welcome to answer the Questions. Please I would like to know what others think. :wink:
Ron

Ron there is nothing wrong with what your hunting with.
In fact I applaud Idaho's ruling because it equalizes inlines with trad hunters. I don't care if folks take to the woods with a all lead conicle bullet, loose powder, peep sites with a exposed nipple because the effective range puts it in the primitive weapon range. I also know many who feel underguned with a PRB thats fine I have been shooting all lead conicles for twenty five years.
I don't agree with scopes, pellitized powder,sabots etc.. I mean come on there is no way sombody can look me in the face and say that is primitive or even remotely traditional.

There are guys on this forum that think these rifles are the same as inlines. Well I take some of that back. If I load them with a conical I have made, they think these guns should be banned from all Traditional hunts.
I am a Hunter that uses traditional rifles, and conicals. I am not a traditional guy that hunts. If you see me in the woods I will have Camo, and gortex. If others want to use the whole package I think it is cool, but not for me. It is the guns that interest me. Ron

It's all about give and take.
I built my first rifle in shop class in 1982 what greenhorn, :haha:
It took almost twenty years before I made the switch to PRB and before that I put thousands of all lead conicles that I casted through that and many other rifles.
My biggest beef like so many others is scoped inlines which = to a single shot rifle during a supposed primitive or traditional season.
Just because I get all gussied up to go run in the woods dosen't mean everybody elce has to.
Just that I look cooler doin' it :haha:

 

[wirehairman]

Some people don't understand the term "primitive" or they willfully choose not to. History, tradition, and the methods and ways of the past mean nothing to them. We now have several pages devoted to this and still there are those cannot grasp a very simple concept. These people are fair game for the makers and marketers of the modern muzzleloaders and the junk that goes along with them. This is a traditional muzzleloading site and it makes me wonder what they are doing here. It seems to me they'd be happier on a site that caters to the in-lines they seem to support so ardently.
And yes Geraldo, it is the hunter and not the hardware. No one has ever stated otherwise. This discussion has been about hunting seasons and what firearms should be allowed in a PRIMITIVE FIREARMS season. As has been stated several times it is a very simple concept that many seem unable to grasp etcetera, etcetera, etcetera :barf:

I think everyone agrees on the base definition of Primitive. Some, including myself, are just hypothesizing that Primitive or Special ML seasons are really cutting our noses off to spite ourselves and have actually promoted the development of in-lines.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Some people don't understand the term "primitive" or they willfully choose not to. History, tradition, and the methods and ways of the past mean nothing to them. We now have several pages devoted to this and still there are those cannot grasp a very simple concept. These people are fair game for the makers and marketers of the modern muzzleloaders and the junk that goes along with them. This is a traditional muzzleloading site and it makes me wonder what they are doing here. It seems to me they'd be happier on a site that caters to the in-lines they seem to support so ardently.
And yes Geraldo, it is the hunter and not the hardware. No one has ever stated otherwise. This discussion has been about hunting seasons and what firearms should be allowed in a PRIMITIVE FIREARMS season. As has been stated several times it is a very simple concept that many seem unable to grasp etcetera, etcetera, etcetera :barf:

Uhhhhh Geraldo its called, and I qoute, MUZZLELOADER SEASON (even here in Oregon with the most restrictive laws) NOT Primitive Firearms season. :slap: Yup, just checked the regs and "primitive season" is NOT mentioned; Let the TC Renegades roll!

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have never, ever suggested doing away with the primitive season. Quite the opposite. I have always advocated returning to the true spirit of the primitive season--hunting the old way using the old fashioned firearms. Ending the primitive seasons won't put an end to the in-lines as they can be used in the modern seasons, too--which is where they belong. Ending the primitive seasons to save the primitive hunters is a bit like throwing out the baby with the bath water.
THE PRIMITIVE SEASON IN ORDER TO BE TRULY A PRIMITIVE SEASON SHOULD BE OPEN ONLY TO THOSE HUNTERS WHO USE TRADITIONAL SIDELOCK FIREARMS LIKE OUR ANCESTORS USED. PERIOD. AMEN.
I do not see how this concept can be made any clearer. It is not about adapting a special primitive season to include non-traditional weapons or ending the primitive season in the hope that by destroying what we are trying to preserve we will save it. I am at a loss to explain this in any simpler terms.

Please don't take this wrong I am not being mean.
Simple question should this gun be legal?

Another simple question. shold this gun be legal?

Last question. If in your mind they should not be legal guns in a traditional hunt, Why? is it the color, or they way they look?
Anyone is welcome to answer the Questions. Please I would like to know what others think. :wink:
Ron

Ron there is nothing wrong with what your hunting with.
In fact I applaud Idaho's ruling because it equalizes inlines with trad hunters. I don't care if folks take to the woods with a all lead conicle bullet, loose powder, peep sites with a exposed nipple because the effective range puts it in the primitive weapon range. I also know many who feel underguned with a PRB thats fine I have been shooting all lead conicles for twenty five years.
I don't agree with scopes, pellitized powder,sabots etc.. I mean come on there is no way sombody can look me in the face and say that is primitive or even remotely traditional.

There are guys on this forum that think these rifles are the same as inlines. Well I take some of that back. If I load them with a conical I have made, they think these guns should be banned from all Traditional hunts.
I am a Hunter that uses traditional rifles, and conicals. I am not a traditional guy that hunts. If you see me in the woods I will have Camo, and gortex. If others want to use the whole package I think it is cool, but not for me. It is the guns that interest me. Ron

It's all about give and take.
I built my first rifle in shop class in 1982 what greenhorn, :haha:
It took almost twenty years before I made the switch to PRB and before that I put thousands of all lead conicles that I casted through that and many other rifles.
My biggest beef like so many others is scoped inlines which = to a single shot rifle during a supposed primitive or traditional season.
Just because I get all gussied up to go run in the woods dosen't mean everybody elce has to.
Just that I look cooler doin' it :haha:

Good attitude!! (SERIOUSLY!)Make your self happy (Something about the freedom to persue happiness.....blah, blah, blah) and leave me and my cammo alone.
:hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

"e. It is the guns that interest me. Ron"

That is the case with many, your outfit looks nice but I really see it is much closer to a single shot Sharps buffaloe gun minus the cartridge... with 21st century design sigts and bullets not real traditional ML., but leagal in your state.it is a looseing battle for the real traditionalist if this is the standard that is accepted.npt that it is a bad gun/setup but it is not a traditional ML outfit by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[tg]

" Let the TC Renegades roll!'

Not a bad choice for a production traditonal styled gun....just feed them traditional fodder(PRB) if you are going to call it a traditional hunting outfit.....modern bullets are for women and small children

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

If I was in charge, we would have a month long season during which only flint lock, matchlock or wheel lock firearms would be used. Traditional garb would be required and hunter orange would be a fruit carried in a snapsack for a quick pick-me-up. Patched ball would be the only projectile allowed--unless the firearm being used was, in period, used with paper cartridges. Bayonets would be optional, but the carrying of a fine pistol of proper ignition type would be encouraged. Modern toilet paper would be allowed--but would have to be kept out of sight except when in use.
I have some doubts that these most reasonable requirements will ever see the light of day, so I accept that some compromises will have to be made. I do believe that a hunter using a plastic stocked, stainless steel, scoped abortion of a firearm will never feel the connection to the past and to his ancestors that the man with a walnut stocked, browned steel longrifle does. The loss is his and, sadly, he will never even know of it.

 

[tg]

"he will never even know of it'

sadly true, many might really enjoy the experience if they were to let go of "now" and step back into the past, but not all dance to the same tune...some just crash dances they were not invited to.. :rotf:

 

[kevthebassman]

Some folks just don't feel the pull of the old smokers. They want extra hunting time and the inlines are the easiest way to take advantage of it, where it's legal. Rolling back the inlines is going to be next to impossible.