Smooth bore or rifled ?

[LarryS]

I am new to BP and am thinking of buying my friends 50 cal. Hawken. He says it's a smooth bore. I'm not planning on shooting bird shot with it. Are rifled barrels much more accurate ? I'll be using the gun at the range, and maybe for some deer hunting.
Thanks for your help,
Larry

 

[Zonie]

Hi LarryS, welcome to the forum.

I moved your topic because it somehow got into the "Using the Forum" area.

Getting to your questions, first off, Hawken's are rifles unless the previous owner changed the barrel to a smoothbore.

At distances over 20 yards or so, rifles are much more accurate than smoothbores.

It is not uncommon for a smoothbore to be able to hold a group inside 12 inches at 50 yards but a rifle can easily hold the group inside 2 inches at the same distance when it's loaded properly.

Getting back to your friends gun, there aren't very many smoothbore barrels available for the typical "Hawken" stock. In fact, I don't know of any that are available right now unless the owner had someone bore out the existing barrel.

This is sometimes done to guns which have extensive rust damage in their bore and it is sometimes the only way of saving the barrel.

 

[LarryS]

Jim thank you so much for the info. He said he thought it was a smoothbore , but wasn't sure. It was built about 20-25 yrs ago. A TC 50 cal Hawken kit.
BTW, just where should I put a question like that ?
Thanks again,
Larry

 

[Sam86]

Yeah most hawkens are rifled, some do have very shollow rifling it they are rifled unless like said he got a smoothbore for it. If it is a smoothbore that's still ok, a lot of people use them for hunting. Most will shoot a 4-5" group at 50 yards and if you do your part shooting and find a good accurate load some can shoot that same size group at 75plus yards. Either way the T/C hawken is a solid gun, cant go wrong with it.

 

[LarryS]

Thanks Sam, I really appreciate you're helping a newbie !!!
The gun was only shot a few times and is in really great condition. He would like $300 for it with all of the other stuff he's got for it. I would think that's a very fair price

 

[Sam86]

Sounds fair to me :thumbsup:

 

[longfowler]

I have not only seen a smoothbore hawken, I own one! custom factory barrel from t/c for hunting in Massachusetts. It shot well enough, I beat a few rifle shooters in Primitive biathlon! But if you were going to use it deer hunting, you'd have to stick to roundballs, sine the lack of rifling meant it keyholes slugs at 25 yards.

 

[LarryS]

Thanks much guys. I'm thinking I'm going with a rifled barrel !!
Any suggestions on how much twist ?

 

[Zonie]

Now, that subject can open a can of worms faster than anything except for lead vs leather wrapped flints in a flintlock. :grin:

Generally speaking patched roundballs work best with slower twists like 1:50 or 1:65.

The typical 1:48 that's found on most factory guns works well with both patched roundballs and short bullets.

Rifling faster than 1:32 works best with slugs although some patched roundballs can work if they are tightly patched.

That said, the depth of the barrels rifling has as much if not a greater effect on which style of projectile works best in a given barrel.

For most people they will end up with the barrel offered by the big factories that make most of the guns on the market.

Only when buying a replacement barrel or a brand new barrel for a gun project does the buyer worry very much about what the twist is and what depth of rifling does the gun need.

 

[LarryS]

So for my first bp rifle, I'll take it as is, and see how she shoots for me. Maybe after I get some experience under my belt, then I will look at that variable a little more deeply. Can't wait to get started, it looks like a lot of fun. Thanks again for your input, I obviously need all the help I can get right now.
Larry

 

[cynthialee]

So for my first bp rifle, I'll take it as is, and see how she shoots for me. Maybe after I get some experience under my belt, then I will look at that variable a little more deeply. Can't wait to get started, it looks like a lot of fun. Thanks again for your input, I obviously need all the help I can get right now.
Larry

Sounds like someone is going to have to make some room in the gun safe. :grin:

Fair warning, black powder is adicitve. I have been feeding the habit for over 30 years.
At first it was just revolvers and that kept me sated for a long time, but earlier this summer I went and bought a rifle and well...the guns are breeding or something in the safe. :haha: Certainly has nothing to do with my habit of scouring the local area for deals or anything. :grin:

 

[Zonie]

Wish I could be there for your first shot.

Oh yes!

I've seen first shots many times.

The look of total concentration while measuring out the powder, while pouring it down the barrel, while positioning the lubed patch and starting the ball with a short starter.

Then the determined look as the patched ball is rammed down to the powder load and the ramrod is carefully withdrawn.

Then the concentration again as the cap is placed on the nipple and the gun is brought to full cock.

Here there is usually a doubtful look as the gun is brought up to the shoulder and the sights are aligned. Is it really going to shoot? Did I do everything correctly? I can't believe I'm doing this!
Then.......BOOM!

First a look of amazement that it actually fired and then a giant ear to ear grin as the shooter heads back to the reloading bench to try it again.

I know your going to find this a new and totally awesome experience. :thumbsup:

 

[LarryS]

I wish you could be there as well !! It's easy to see the great love and passion you have for this sport. I'm sure I'm going to be thrilled at the first shot. Now a friend of mine says I can have his old bp gun for free if his ex wife can find it !!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

You mean that one she's been using as a tomato stake out in the garden? :haha:

It's great fun to shoot and a good challenge to hunt with the 'ol smokepoles. Enjoy!

 

[LarryS]

Ha !! I sure hope not. I hope she can find the darn thing
!

 

[ebiggs1]

Well, if it is free, I would jump on it like a cat on a mouse! :thumbsup:
If it is $300 bucks I would pass.
I have “several” TC Hawken models and the rifles are very good but I see a 56 cal smooth bore as just a curiosity. :idunno:
If I were allowed only one muzzle loader, it would be a smooth bore but of much larger caliber, say 62 or 75. :hmm:
For $300 bucks, you can get a very nice used TC Hawken with a real rifle barrel and you will be much more happy. :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

Got one of those .56 smoothy barrels in trade one time that's a little rough inside. Don't know how it might group ball. I occasionally consider having it rifled to be a .58 capper but already have a TC Hawken. Maybe it would make a nice shorty smooth .60 to shoot .575 ball with canvas patch and use 5/8" punched wads for shot.

 

[LarryS]

That's exactly what my other friend wants to sell me. A 50 cal TC Hawken he put together about 25 yrs ago in perfect shape.
He wants $300 for that with all the other things needed to shoot. That's a pretty good deal isn't it ? It was only shot a few times, and now I'm pretty sure it's a rifled barrel.

 

[ebiggs1]

A TC Hawken 50 cal “rifle” in nice shape is worth $300 bucks. But I would say that is top of the market so it better be nice. :grin: As to it being a kit, if it is a real nice job, maybe. :hmm: But kits generally don't bring as much as factory guns do. Some kit builders do a better job than the factory so it is subjective at best. Unfortunately some (most) do not! :td:

He says it's a smooth bore.

I would not get a 50 cal, or smaller, smooth bore anything if it were my only gun.

 

[4given]

You can buy a brand new .54 Lyman trade rifle on line right now for $343.00 and that includes chipping at Bud's Gun shop.

Bud's gun shop

Or a brand new .50 Lyman Trade Rifle at Buds for $349.00 including shipping

Buds Gun shop Lyman .50

I probably wouldn't pay 300.00 for somebodys old kit gun. There could be rust, bad inleting, etc, ect..... IMHO it would be better to fork over the extra 50 bucks and start with new.

I bought a used .54 TC Regegade for $225 that supposedly included "all the accesories" to shoot it but I still ended up having to spend quite a bit more money to get the "right" accessories anyway. I also had to have some minor gunsmithing done to the rifle. the previous owner had cross threaded the nipple. I am now developing a hairline crack in the stock I will have to fix. The darn thing shoots the Lyman plains bullet consitantly under 2 inches at 100 yards so I will keep it but I think I probably would have been better off buyin a new Lyman from Buds.