Snaplock eventually a wheellock

[Pukka Bundook]

No, I think the "two shots behind..." means superposed, or one barrel with two loads.
This system was not uncommon.
It Would be a rarity for a double barrel at this time. Not unknown, but a real rarity.

Best,
R.

 

[Commodore Swab]

With a snaplock the pan is manually opened rather than being opened by the operation of the lock. As a double you theoretically wouldn't need 2 locks to fire the second barrel as the flame should ignite it if the pan was open. On the flip side not opening the pan with allow for a single trigger to operate both locks and still remain selective fire . . .hmmmmm

 

[TobJohn]

TobJohn must have a doctorate in research!

Just a nerd with free time, though my undergrad degree was very research focused.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Nerds are what makes the world go round in today's high-tech market place! Wish I could qualify.

 

[TobJohn]

Nerds are what makes the world go round in today's high-tech market place! Wish I could qualify.

Ironically, I’m much better at this than my tech job, lol!

 

[tom in nc]

With a snaplock the pan is manually opened rather than being opened by the operation of the lock. As a double you theoretically wouldn't need 2 locks to fire the second barrel as the flame should ignite it if the pan was open. On the flip side not opening the pan with allow for a single trigger to operate both locks and still remain selective fire . . .hmmmmm

Since you mention pans... Suppose someone wanted to build a matchlock. What would be the best method to fasten on the swiveling/swinging cover to the body of the pan? I would include a flash guard. Not trying to recreate a particular gun I've thought about a screw, with the head on top and a locking nut on the bottom? Of course I wouldn't want to use a modern nylon inserted locknut. What about a "period correct" screw with two period correct (square) nuts jammed together underneath. Or a screw or bolt with threads in the body of the pan and a spring washer? How about attaching the pan & cover to the side of the barrel? What do you all recommend? Thanks.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Tom I am sure you are aware that you have come to the most knowledgeable group of folks on matchlocks imaginable. Great question! Personally I am of the wheelock venue. Just a thought; I would suggest perhaps start your new post under the "Pre-Flintlock" section of this incredible forum focusing your question as there are almost 70 posts under this original post. Or just hang tight here for your answers.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Tom,
A rivet is most usual.
easy to tighten up.
Sometimes the flash fence is screwed in place. this on somewhat later pieces.
here's mine on an early 17th C type I made. this is seen quite often.
As you can see it holds pan cover and is screwed into the pan.

 

[Commodore Swab]

I have not built a matchlock as my focus is making early firelocks work well and a matchlock doesnt fit the bill. I can agree that a rivit would be the best way. The easiest would be to simply use a nail, cut it long and peen it over on top and bottom.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Re the nomenclature discussions, one should remember that all pre percussion locks had their foundation in tinder boxes etc. for fire starting. Early flints for flintlocks were the same as ones for tinder boxes. All fire locks were essentially hande gonnes with a tinder fire starter bolted on the side. The rest is just incremental improvements. Once we moved on from friction fire lighting nothing more new happened until the percussion cap. The modern breechloading cartridge is nothing more that a flimsy percussion cap mini muzzle loader pushed into a stout sleeve to hold it together when it goes bang.

 

[rickystl]

This might be a good time to post this lock again. A true "snaplock" as most of us recognize it. This lock is from TRS and is described as Swedish about 1600. Which is probably accurate. Note that the pan cover and frizzen are two separate pieces. Like a snaphaunce. But unlike a snaphaunce, the pan cover has to be manually moved first before firing, similar to a matchlock. Notice the "look" of the pan cover resembles both wheellocks and snaphaunce. Also note the styling of the cock itself. Sort of reminds me of a bent style of serpentine for a matchlock. And the overall large size of the lock to accommodate the robust size of the matchlocks from this period. The lock is a true attempt at transitioning to flint ignition at the time.

Rick

 

[TobJohn]

This might be a good time to post this lock again. A true "snaplock" as most of us recognize it. This lock is from TRS and is described as Swedish about 1600. Which is probably accurate. Note that the pan cover and frizzen are two separate pieces. Like a snaphaunce. But unlike a snaphaunce, the pan cover has to be manually moved first before firing, similar to a matchlock. Notice the "look" of the pan cover resembles both wheellocks and snaphaunce. Also note the styling of the cock itself. Sort of reminds me of a bent style of serpentine for a matchlock. And the overall large size of the lock to accommodate the robust size of the matchlocks from this period. The lock is a true attempt at transitioning to flint ignition at the time.

RickView attachment 269132View attachment 269133View attachment 269134View attachment 269135

Here is one of the earliest (~1550) locks the swedes have. Its the best condition one of this set, but interestingly, they have several almost identical ones:

I was wrong about Swedish stocks on their more sporting styled guns. Instead of pure German styling, they seem to have a more triangular and tilted shape to the butt of the stock.
View attachment BB0980F4-7996-43FF-A3D4-F1D6D5063E81.jpeg

Correction: This is their earliest dated snaplock, 1540-1560. The stock styling does seem to match other guns from that period:

snapplåsbössa, lägglås, utfjäderslås - långt rör, pipa Nürnberg

 

[Sam squanch]

Swedish snap lock? This guy uses one….

 

[rickystl]

Tob: Thanks for posting these photos. Note in the first lock photo we see the frizzen and pan cover as one piece. In the other B&W photos the lock appears to have a separate frizzen with no pan cover. But it could likely have had a manual - only - cover, but it looks like that and the pan are missing.
If you click on the Link you provided, you will notice the lock on this gun having both the one-piece frizzen and pan cover, but still retaining a manual cover. Possibly for safety reasons.
Here is another lock similar to the one in the Link. A good close up view.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Here is the butt stock of my Swedish snaplock. Still a different style. There must have been as much experimentation with butt stock styles as there was with lock design. LOL

Rick

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

Rickystl: Your Swedish Snaplock is magnificent! You must be looking for some handmade nails for the butt stock plate toe.

 

[rickystl]

Actually, the but plate was supposed to have square head nails. But somehow it didn't turn out that way. LOL

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

That stock doesn’t look that comfortable….

 

[BillinOregon]

Rick, Pukka, Rudyard: Do you fellers ever have "open house play days" when guys from this forum can come over and play with your astonishing pre-flintlock firearms? I promise to bring cookies ...

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Not all on the same day, Bill!
LOL!