I thought this would head this direction, I would still like to know how and why we choose what is and what is not and this thread has offered some very good examples of no standardization, let's stay with the pre 1865 to keep things simple and still acknowledge the longrange target MLs of the last half of the 19th century and also accept that they were not what the common man still useing a ML on the frontier was likely using. there were scoped in use by the end of the civil, war on the Knight gun I see a modern version of this technology,but most who claim the traditional badge say no, also the ignition is an improved type the goes back to the 1700's the traditional types say no,a production sidelock or a semi custom TVM are generally accepted unless the production type has a stainless barrel or plastic stock, speaking of stocks if one takes a gun like one of Knights and puts a wood stock and ball barrel and iron sights most traditional types would say no (wrong kind of ignition even though the ignition does not offer any advantage)the modern stock style must be OK because some production guns have these and they are accepted, now, let's see, we cannot use a modern scope but if we put a modern peep sight on a sidelock it is OK, and the same for bullets we can use modern bullets but no modern scopes or some types of modern versions of 250 year old ignition styles,are we confused yet? I am, Generaly speaking the ML's of the ML period used a ball or early style bullet which can be difficuult to load and there were few options of styles for civilian guns,but we can get around the latter problem by using a modern bullet, but not that nasty type of ignition which is a moot issue advantage wise, these original "traditional" guns generally used a fixed open sight or primitive adjustable type, but we get around the problem of "good" sights by useing modern highly refined peep sights and that's OK, after all there were peep sights around at the time, we just want to make them "better"..now lets take one of Knights guns put a wood stock(same modern design), fixed sights and rb barrrel on it and shoot out to 100 yds...nope that damn ignition non-issue is there again, but we can take a production side lock mount a modern peep sight shoot modern bullets out to 200 yds and we are traditional again, now that sounds reasonable :hmm: Stainless steel barrels and plastic stocks are bad, just plain bad, no way around that, :nono: but if they load from the front....and if Daniel and Davey would have had them... :shake: let's not go there we have enough to work on allready. It seems like we can use advanced technology with non-optical sights and bullets to gain an advantage in range and down range energy over what the originals used(those would be the traditional type in case you lost track), but we cannot use a modern improved type of traditional ignition system that offers no advantage, what was it we were trying to keep alive?...oh it will come to me again, now would it not seem reasonable to try and use a type/style of gun as close as is reasonable and within reasonable price limits and try to achieve the same experience in technology that was around in the day of the originals when we use the term "traditional"...without dragging in improved modernized versions of early technology that existed but was not anywhere near common in usage"back then"? this includes most of the production guns available, without upgraded sights and barrel rifleing and the improved bullets to match,and remember this is just for the sake of terminology in the course of conversations and exchanges of experiences to define that which makes this sport unique,after four decades of modern influence the game departments are not likely to take away your Maxi balls or Lyman peeps, it also starts the newcommer in the right direction, so what if his first gun is not traditional shoot it and if he like the "oldways" he will soon have one that is, if you can't kill a Deer or Elk with a ball and open sights that's fine use what you choose, but don't stake claim to the same level as the guy who takes the time to learn how to work with the technology of yesterday and has figured out how to use the old stuff and make it work, he's not better just different...traditional does not mean better, just different from the modern improved versions of guns and accouterments, quite often folks look before they leap when purchasing a gun or choose a barrel twist and projectile and sights, or just did not think about the bigger picture of the sport with the history and challenges, it happens, accept it and have fun with your gun even if it has a plastic stock and stainless steel barrel, you can always get a traditonal one later if you really want to have a try at the traditional experience, which includes taking care of wood and steel (don't even go into the "they need to be iron barrels to be traditional")Don't start off a post on a forum appologizing for not having a traditional gun most stated that way, shoot, hunt with what you have.Just give some thought as to what "Traditional" really means and why one would have to need to use the term so much that a lot of "stretching and spinning" is required, have fun, and a great day.If I misspelled anything it is because it is traditional to do so as it was done in the past.
