Stock Finishing Help

[Cart1775]

I bought a Traditions Kentucky Percussion Rifle kit. I have had problems with the stock taking stain. The stock as per the manufacture is made of European Beechwood. I sanded the stock per the directions and was one going to just use Tru-Oil however when I put on some water to try and get an idea how the stock would look it was too light. I then went to stain the stock with Birchwood-Casey walnut stain. The problem is that the stock will not take the stain evenly. The wood stain is uneven, dark in areas and will not stain in other areas.
I would appreciate any advice or help with this problem. Am I going to have to strip the stock and start over or is there something else I may be able to do with the stock?


Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Jim

 

[Melnic]

You are not alone.
I used stain conditioner with one of my traditions kits per the advice of others. read the instructions before using.
Listen to others suggestions before you jump on this though.

Next one I do (if I do another Traditions) I will use leather dye which someone also advised to use.

 

[BlackHillsBob]

this is what you do, beech has a lot of figure and that is the way it is. you can not get a even stain on beech but you can make it good. sand with the grain to bare wood. then take medium brow leather dye and soak soak soak the stock.wash off when dry. then take watco penatraiting oil thin by 1/3 watco 2/3 thinner. brush into stock and leave 15 min or so. wipe off excess and let dry a day. do over and over until it wont take any more. watco does not build up on the surface. penetrates and hardens the wood. when it wont take any more, the stock, stop wipe clean and let it really dry. then rub down with a flannel cotton cloth and HUTS polish available on the internet. if you want the stock to be darker mix a little india ink into the leather dye. you will see a lot of grain but it will be light and dark as some wood accepts dye more than other wood on beech. that is what the grain is in beech. beech can look very nice but if you want a even dark finish use black walnut or cherry. those woods will give a even dark finish.i my self like beech as it is tough and i like wood with a lot of grain showing.

 

[longcruise]

I just went with the tru oil over the wood without stain. At first it didn't appeal but after a while I came to prefer blonde

 

[Cart1775]

Thanks for the comments and help. I'm not sure if I can get all the old stain out of the small areas of the stock,is that going to be a problem with the new stain? Also Bob I can only find Watco oil in a Danish and Teak oil. Is the penetrating oil something else. Is 220 grit OK to sand down the old stain or can I go more aggressive?

As you can tell I'm a newbie at this and I really appreciate your help. Wish I had found this forum before I got started.


Jim

 

[BlackHillsBob]

that ok. sand with the grain with 220 and that is enough. use the 220 wet stuff from the auto store. never ever go across the grain as it is hard to get the back wood back to scratch free normal. dont be afraid to stand at the kitchen sink and wet sand with the grain. sand, wash clean, sand wash clean. when you get it down to where you want let dry in a netural spot for a couple of day. buy the watch danish oil. you can even cut it to 1/4 danish and 3/4 thinner. some of your stock is going to take a lot and some a lot less. keep putting it on and then let sit of 15 min to no more than 1/2 hour. then with a clean cloth wipe off the excess. do this every day until the stock will take no more. then for the next couple of day wipe off excess that come back out of the wood. you can rb down with pumice powder when it is dry but Huts olish is best. when dry sit watching tv and rub rub rub with huts on a cotton flannel cloth. it will be a soft glowing oil finsh that will stand up to anything. this isnt rocket science, you can do a above perfect job, just take your time. the labor is yours, you dont have to pay any one. in a couple of weeks you will have what you want. beech can be made to look very nice.

 

[Zonie]

IMO Cart1775, you didn't get all of the original finish off of the wood.

You might try resanding the stock and then applying something like MEK, acetone or a good lacquer thinner to it.
After doing this, I'm sure the Birchwood Casey stain will take although it might need to have two coats of it to even things out.

Another thing that can cause problems when it comes to staining is, if the wood was sanded with too fine of a grit of sandpaper, the fine grit will end up closing up the grain cells. If this happens, the stain won't penetrate the wood.
IMO, you shouldn't be using a finishing sand paper that is finer than a 220 grit. 180 grit is even better.

 

[Cart1775]

Thanks again Bob, I'll let you know how it goes. One question do I still use the leather dye before I use the Watco oil.

 

[Zonie]

You want the dye to penetrate the wood and any type of oil on the wood will prevent that from happening.

This is true whether you are using a leather dye or the Birchwood Casey stain.

Also remember, when your staining wood, the stained wood will always look lighter when the stain has dried. If you want to see how it's going to look while leaving the door open for applying more stain if it is too light, just wet the surface with water. That will show you what the stain will look like after the surface is oiled. If it looks too light, let the water dry and then apply more stain. If it looks good to you then let the surface dry and proceed on to the oiling stage.

Edit:
Someone here on the forum has mentioned that people giving advice should show something that lets people know the poster has at least a little bit of knowledge so here is a picture of some of my curly maple stocks. They were all stained with alcohol or water based stains.
Hopefully they show I know a little something about the processes.

 

[Cart1775]

Thanks for the information Zonie,
I may have sealed the grain, I use some 800 grit paper before I stained. They may have caused at least part of the problem. I have gone over the stock with acetone and I could have missed some spots, it's certainly possible. However the stain still looked really bad. I'm going to take it down to bare wood again and see what happens this time.
Again thanks for you help.
Your rifles are outstanding!!

 

[Richard Konish]

Alcohol based stains work on birch, or so say many of the posters on the CMP forum (birch M1 Garand stocks), but not sure if it would work on beech. Traditions production rifles have a dark stain, might call them and ask what they use.

 

[Sidney Smith]

IIRC we used Birchwood Casey true oil on my grandsons's Traditions flintlock. It took the stain pretty well, without any unusual unevenness.

 

[Cart1775]

Richard,
Thanks for the info. I have found out more about Beechwood than I ever thought possible. It seems that it is a hard wood and my stock is made from a Beechwood from Spain. It doesn't take well to staining (?) not sure why it used in the Traditions kits, probably its cheaper than some other woods that would be suitable. I thought I could put on some TRU-Oil and be done. I could but it left me with a very light finish (blonde). I have now stripped the stock using Watco refinisher that has done a good job. I ordered a piece of Beechwood and I'm going to experiment with a couple of different "stains" "finishes" and see what happens. This has turned into a larger project than I every thought it would be but I'm retired so time is not a problem and I am learning something new. I did inquire about the Traditions stain kit and all I got was the price and how to order. That's all the person at Traditions knew.

Thanks again for you reply,
Jim

 

[Black Hand]

Richard,
Thanks for the info. I have found out more about Beechwood than I ever thought possible. It seems that it is a hard wood and my stock is made from a Beechwood from Spain. It doesn't take well to staining (?) not sure why it used in the Traditions kits, probably its cheaper than some other woods that would be suitable. I thought I could put on some TRU-Oil and be done. I could but it left me with a very light finish (blonde). I have now stripped the stock using Watco refinisher that has done a good job. I ordered a piece of Beechwood and I'm going to experiment with a couple of different "stains" "finishes" and see what happens. This has turned into a larger project than I every thought it would be but I'm retired so time is not a problem and I am learning something new. I did inquire about the Traditions stain kit and all I got was the price and how to order. That's all the person at Traditions knew.

Thanks again for you reply,
Jim

While it may not be the best choice, solvent-based leather dye should stain the wood (I've used Feibing's). The aniline wood dyes sold by various gun-builder supply houses should also do the job.

 

[Zonie]

This CVA shotgun has a beechwood stock stained with a alcohol based Walnut stain. It came out rather nice in my opinion.

 

[BlackHillsBob]

i really like looking at the pictures of work done of their guns, thanks.

 

[Cart1775]

I'm waiting for my piece of Beech wood to be delivered, it is suppose to be here today. I'm going to try a couple of different ideas given on this forum and see what happens. I have stripped down the original stock, but I'm going to see how my stains looks on the test piece before I try anything on the stock. I bought some Watco Refinisher and it worked great to take the old stain off. The stock is back to bare wood.

 

[BlackHillsBob]

watco is good, cut it to 1/3 with a thinner. remember it does not build up on the wood. wipe the stock good with it . wait 15 to 20 min then wipe off excess and let dry repeat once or twice a day until the stock takes no more. keep rubbing down excess until dry. you can rub down with pumice powder but HUTS polish on a cotton cloth is the best. as to the stain. i prefer leather dye as recommendened by dixie gun works years and years ago. india ink, a few drops in thinner will bring out the grain also.take your time you will like what it turns out to be.

 

[Cart1775]

Well guys I screwed up and left the Watco on too long. The stock was sticky feeling after 5 days. The finish looked good and the grain of the wood and darkness of the stain was what I wanted. I left the stock drying for another day but the stock still felt "wet" sticky. I started doing searches on the internet as I really didn't want to have to strip the stock again. I wiped the stock down with mineral spirits and let it dry for another day. The stock felt some better but was still sticky feeling. I went back to the internet and found some other people who had the same problem. Their solution was to rub the stock down with olive oil. I thought about his for a day, strip or try their idea. I thought at the worse if it didn't work I could start stripping the stock. So I rubbed on the extra virgin olive oil. To my amazement it worked. The stock is no longer sticky or wet feeling and the stain has not changed. The grain still looks good and the stock is smooth as glass. I guess time will tell how this holds up.
I'm on the bluing the barrel and I hope I don't mess that up.
Thanks for all your comments and help, I think I an going to have another kit in my future. And I have learned a great deal from this and from those who have much more experience.
I'll try and post a picture when I get further along.

Thanks again,

Jim

 

[BlackHillsBob]

ok, i will take it a bit more. you did right and did it as it should be. when your done for the day and you get watco , tung oil or any finish on your hands, take oilve oil and work it into your hands real good and when you have done that take a good dish soap and work it into your hands, then wash off, no more finish on your hands. also now go to the internet and buy HUTS polish. take a good piece of cotton 100 percent cloth and with HUTS rub your stock down for a couple of evenings. you will like it even better.