Brokennock
Cannon
Thank you.
This thread has had me thinking of your post of your old can of Superfine powder.
I thought I saved some of the pics posted in the replies but I can't find them.
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Superfine powder difference?
- Thread starter OB One
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This thread has had me thinking of your post of your old can of Superfine powder.
I thought I saved some of the pics posted in the replies but I can't find them.
Unfortunately, unlike most of the threads on this forum, this one has probably done more to confuse the OP than help. Some answers are correct. e.g. the word "superfine" is not a granulation designation, it is a marketing term. For an experienced bp user just looking at the powder can reveal it's granulation size. As for 4Fg in a main charge, I wouldn't do it.
4f will burn faster than 2f by comparison releasing the same energy, just faster. I would back it off by 1/6th if I was trying. IE, if normally shoot 60, back off to 50.
All the posts very interesting. However I stand by my statement that in
the period gunpowder was offered in two grades, Course and Fine.
Spence 10 refers to a notice in the South Carolina Gazette of June 11,
1741 that refers to f grades being sold by half barrel. I would like to
know what Index was used to locate that? Not doubting it, but that
was not the "trade gunpowder of the day." I'm unable to find the
source of Spence's quote.
the period gunpowder was offered in two grades, Course and Fine.
Spence 10 refers to a notice in the South Carolina Gazette of June 11,
1741 that refers to f grades being sold by half barrel. I would like to
know what Index was used to locate that? Not doubting it, but that
was not the "trade gunpowder of the day." I'm unable to find the
source of Spence's quote.
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If you throw it by weight in grains the charges will be identical in energy. The charges will bulk different. Some will get all technical with air space between kernels of powder more burning area on bigger kernels Yadda yadda. But a pound of black powder of a given quality is a pound regardless of kernel size. Don’t quote me I just know that from reading.
Brokennock
Cannon
Spence has a truly VAST data base of period newspapers and advertising. Everything from trade items coming in by ship and where they will be sold to runaway ads and short news articles.
Be careful what you ask him for, it can be like asking a Sicilian grandmother for more to eat,,,,,, you may get more than you can digest.
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Here's what's on my can. Sides just have a painted-on label that says superfine gunpowder. Nowhere is an FF number. I have no idea when or where I got this can, so you can see why I am reluctant to use it. I really appreciate you all's help.
The reason I'm asking is, I'm all out of the 3F I had. All I have left is a full pound of 777. So can someone give me the correlation between 777 and 2f or 3f ? I don't shoot a lot as up to last Saturday the only place I can only shoot is in my backyard range out to 125 yards. Saturday I found a new range just 20 miles from my home with a range out to 1000 yards, and it's set up for gongs all the way out. Now my next question is how far out can I accurately shoot with a 50 cal. Hawkin?
I gave my 45/70 to my Son in law cause It wasn't doing me any good out to just 125 yds. Naturally, he just wants to keep It.
Thanks, OB One
The reason I'm asking is, I'm all out of the 3F I had. All I have left is a full pound of 777. So can someone give me the correlation between 777 and 2f or 3f ? I don't shoot a lot as up to last Saturday the only place I can only shoot is in my backyard range out to 125 yards. Saturday I found a new range just 20 miles from my home with a range out to 1000 yards, and it's set up for gongs all the way out. Now my next question is how far out can I accurately shoot with a 50 cal. Hawkin?
I gave my 45/70 to my Son in law cause It wasn't doing me any good out to just 125 yds. Naturally, he just wants to keep It.
Thanks, OB One
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If I recall correctly, the powder granulation size was ink-stamped on the DuPont can in the blank space below the red oval and above the word "Superfine". The designation looks to have been worn off of your can.Here's what's on my can. Sides just have a painted-on label that says superfine gunpowder. Nowhere is an FF number. I have no idea when or where I got this can, so you can see why I am reluctant to use it. I really appreciate you all's help.
The reason I'm asking is, I'm all out of the 3F I had. All I have left is a full pound of 777. So can someone give me the correlation between 777 and 2f or 3f ? I don't shoot a lot as up to last Saturday the only place I can only shoot is in my backyard range out to 125 yards. Saturday I found a new range just 20 miles from my home with a range out to 1000 yards, and it's set up for gongs all the way out. Now my next question is how far out can I accurately shoot with a 50 cal. Hawkin?
I gave my 45/70 to my Son in law cause It wasn't doing me any good out to just 125 yds. Naturally, he just wants to keep It.
Thanks, OB One
View attachment 108162
I sure wish I would have kept an empty or two of my own from back when.
My thinking is this, that the Op has a can of "superfine Black Rifle Powder" without
a sieve designation. Well I know that in times past gunpowder was sold as " C" or "f"
Fine. Course or fine. that is disputed here, but a little time researching will show
I am correct on that. Now was there also gunpowder being sold by grading according
to the 1-4F designation? According to posts here it was. The point is that the Can
is supposed to contain a description of a "Superfine" powder" Early on people
recommended that the OP just shoot it. I said (thinking of the older designations
for fine pistol powder ) that it would be 3-4f. The fact-checkers jumped and this
debate ensued. My major satisfaction is knowing that the OP did not relate to
having a heart attack or incurable cancer, therefore, we will all live to fight another day.
a sieve designation. Well I know that in times past gunpowder was sold as " C" or "f"
Fine. Course or fine. that is disputed here, but a little time researching will show
I am correct on that. Now was there also gunpowder being sold by grading according
to the 1-4F designation? According to posts here it was. The point is that the Can
is supposed to contain a description of a "Superfine" powder" Early on people
recommended that the OP just shoot it. I said (thinking of the older designations
for fine pistol powder ) that it would be 3-4f. The fact-checkers jumped and this
debate ensued. My major satisfaction is knowing that the OP did not relate to
having a heart attack or incurable cancer, therefore, we will all live to fight another day.
Brokennock
Cannon
What about the underside of the can?Here's what's on my can. Sides just have a painted-on label that says superfine gunpowder. Nowhere is an FF number. I have no idea when or where I got this can, so you can see why I am reluctant to use it. I really appreciate you all's help.
The reason I'm asking is, I'm all out of the 3F I had. All I have left is a full pound of 777. So can someone give me the correlation between 777 and 2f or 3f ? I don't shoot a lot as up to last Saturday the only place I can only shoot is in my backyard range out to 125 yards. Saturday I found a new range just 20 miles from my home with a range out to 1000 yards, and it's set up for gongs all the way out. Now my next question is how far out can I accurately shoot with a 50 cal. Hawkin?
I gave my 45/70 to my Son in law cause It wasn't doing me any good out to just 125 yds. Naturally, he just wants to keep It.
Thanks, OB One
View attachment 108162
Any markings there?
Also, what does the powder look like. The granulation sizes are visibly different enough to be recognizable by comparison.
Not the best quality pictures but, even with the poor photo quality, one can see the difference between 2f and 3f,,, 4f is much finer and visibly so.
I apologize for forgetting what caliber gun you are using this in, but, honestly, even if the powder in that Dupont can looks finer than the 3d pictured, I would use it.
But, I would start my load work up with a charge 10% lower than your 3f load. If using a 3f load that is on the heavy side, maybe drop another 5 grains lower than that 10% reduction.
You are correct that the total energy is the same. However, the finer grain will burn faster by comparison creating a quicker energy spike that with some firearms could cause an issue. I make my own BP and have played with and tested several times the difference with grainsize and pressures.
Nope, if 4f could cause an issue in some firearms then a slight mishap in the loading of said questionable firearm with any powder and thus creat a "spike" in pressure as you put it could also cause an issue.
It is these sweeping comments that completely baffle me. Please submit your evidence, data or facts that substantiate your comment, belief or opinion.
Thank you.
I get the impression you would not believe my testing results over the last 4 years. I'll quit wasting time now, and not even try
Wow that’s really cool! I’ll trade you an unopened can of 3 or 2F Swiss C for it for the unopened one? Kidding aside you had it this long I’d hold onto it.
J. Paul.
No sir, for more than four years I have been asking for the evidence that using 4f as a main charge normally is dangerous. If indeed it is dangerous and does blow barrels apart please show me.
Why assume I would not believe you?
So, how did you conduct your tests? Where did the barrel fail ? What were the load parameters?
No sir, for more than four years I have been asking for the evidence that using 4f as a main charge normally is dangerous. If indeed it is dangerous and does blow barrels apart please show me.
Why assume I would not believe you?
So, how did you conduct your tests? Where did the barrel fail ? What were the load parameters?
Maybe an old armament manual may be of use
With the markings on the can apparently altered the contents come into question. Does the OP know the origins of the can?, was it sealed,? is it indeed black powder? . An open burn test would help in determining that. Black will flash burn, smokeless much slower. Most smokeless is more grey in color, black is black and a bit shiny. They also have different aromas.
I’d be curious what cap and ball guy who experiment have learned. I’ve heard of them using it; though at reduced loads and well compressed which I understand from talking with BP metallic case loaders work with 2 3 and 4. Me I just fill my cartridges with either all powder 2 or 3 or powder and wafers and enough room so the bullet compresses the powder. There is no load data for black powder that I have found
