I "won" what appeared to be a very nice Thompson Center Cherokee in .45 ... and it arrived today. The problem is the hammer will only go to half cock and will not lock back. Is there a solution to this ... or have I just been "had" ...
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T/C Cherokee disappointment ...
- Thread starter OBX-TXN
- Start date
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There may be a number of things wrong here.
And even if the lock is fubar a new one can be found.
First take the lock out of the gun and see if it operates as intended.
The fellas here can work you through most fixes.
And even if the lock is fubar a new one can be found.
First take the lock out of the gun and see if it operates as intended.
The fellas here can work you through most fixes.
I'd start off by adjusting the set trigger screw. Taking the lock off as CL suggested will tell you if there are any problems with the lock, which I doubt. Could be an stock inlet problem.
bubba.50
Barefoot Hillbilly
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with the lock out of the stock check for proper operation as CynthiaLee suggests.
if it checks out okay, check the triggers & inlet as GeneL suggested.
if, worse-case scenario, it needs a new lock buy a jar of Vaseline & pucker-up.
luck & have a good'en, bubba.
if it checks out okay, check the triggers & inlet as GeneL suggested.
if, worse-case scenario, it needs a new lock buy a jar of Vaseline & pucker-up.
luck & have a good'en, bubba.
Well I adjusted the set trigger screw ... and I found a place it would cock ... and "fire" ... but half cock is a bit sketchy ... To be honest I have never pulled a lock before ...
The gun looks unfired. I looks like a wall hanger ...
The gun looks unfired. I looks like a wall hanger ...
Billnpatti
Cannon
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Obx-Txn said:
Removing a lock is not at all difficult. Nothing is going to jump out at you. You will have to remove the barrel so that the lock will be free from the side of the barrel. To remove the barrel, first remove the ram rod. Next tap out the wedge key. Now your barrel should be free to be lifted out. Grasp the front of the barrel ahead of the stock and lift it up. The breach is hooked into the tang so just swing it up and unhook it from the breach. Now, look at the side directly opposite the lock and you will see a lock bolt head. Use a properly fitting screwdriver to loosen the bolt. When the bolt has completely unscrewed from the lock, use the handle of the screwdriver to gently tap on the bolt head to loosen the lock from the lock mortise. The lock should fall out into your hand. With the lock out of the rifle, try to cock it into the full cock notch. If it goes into the full cock notch while it is out of the rifle, that tells you that there is something in the lock mortise or trigger adjustment that is keeping the lock from going into the full cock notch. To let the hammer back down, hold it with your finger and trip the sear bar. Ease the hammer back down fully and then move it back into the half cock position. It can now be replaced into the lock mortise and the lock bolt can be screwed back in. Do not over tighten the lock bolt. This is very important. Over tightening the lock bolt can, and usually does, pull the lock into the lock mortise and make it bind in the wood of the stock. Just gently snug is all it needs. In almost all cases involving the trigger, adjusting the set screw so that it is not run too far in will solve many such problems. Also, if someone has over tightened the lock bolt and pulled the lock into the mortise too tightly, loosening and re-tightening properly will solve many such problems. If you do both of these things and still have a problem, get back to us and one, or many, of us will work to help you solve your problem. T/C made good guns so most likely the problem lies with something a previous owner did to it. Trust me, it is highly likely that your problem can be easily solved. Let us help you. :thumbsup:
I knew I bought that set of gunsmith screwdrivers years ago for some reason ...
But before I start unscrewing things ... I have worked the hammer/trigger some 40-50 times ... and it does fine as long as the gun is upright ... but will not cock if on it's side ... which seems curious ...
But before I start unscrewing things ... I have worked the hammer/trigger some 40-50 times ... and it does fine as long as the gun is upright ... but will not cock if on it's side ... which seems curious ...
Holding the cock when the gun is upright but not if it is laying on its side sounds like the sear spring is not doing its job.
Remove the lock like B&P suggested.
Looking at the lock you will see a arm sticking out away from the inside of the lock.
That is the sear arm which is part of the sear. (The thing that holds the hammer cocked).
This sear should be spring loaded and as memory serves me, with the TC locks it is done by a small coil spring at the rear of the lock.
The spring is inside a small cup that is pushing on the sear.
With the lock still uncocked, move the sear arm upward. It should act like it is spring loaded but it should move quite freely.
If the sear spring is broken or missing, that is the problem.
If the cup the spring is in is missing, that is the problem.
This little spring can be replaced by a cut down spring out of a ball point pen (if you can find one). Just make sure it has enough power to always keep pressure on the sear.
Sometimes, that cup can get gunked up from old oil or grease or dirt. If that is the case, remove the sear screw and sear and pry the cup out.
Clean and oil it and you should be back in business.
While I'm writing, if you remove the sear, when you replace it, do NOT tighten the screw up.
It should be "snug" but not tight so the sear can rotate easily.
In the picture, #51 is the sear, 52A is the spring cup and #52 is the sear spring.
Remove the lock like B&P suggested.
Looking at the lock you will see a arm sticking out away from the inside of the lock.
That is the sear arm which is part of the sear. (The thing that holds the hammer cocked).
This sear should be spring loaded and as memory serves me, with the TC locks it is done by a small coil spring at the rear of the lock.
The spring is inside a small cup that is pushing on the sear.
With the lock still uncocked, move the sear arm upward. It should act like it is spring loaded but it should move quite freely.
If the sear spring is broken or missing, that is the problem.
If the cup the spring is in is missing, that is the problem.
This little spring can be replaced by a cut down spring out of a ball point pen (if you can find one). Just make sure it has enough power to always keep pressure on the sear.
Sometimes, that cup can get gunked up from old oil or grease or dirt. If that is the case, remove the sear screw and sear and pry the cup out.
Clean and oil it and you should be back in business.
While I'm writing, if you remove the sear, when you replace it, do NOT tighten the screw up.
It should be "snug" but not tight so the sear can rotate easily.
In the picture, #51 is the sear, 52A is the spring cup and #52 is the sear spring.
Well ... I kinda half assed it. I tried to pull down on part 52a with needle nose pliars ... to no avail. Then I put a drop of Kroil on where 52a and 52 meet. But that typically takes a bit. But it looked like the right ball pint pen spring would go around part 52a ... and it did.
First try ... the gun cocked fine ... but would only fall to half cock. Took a couple of tries cutting one coil at a time ... but is functioning "normally" now ...
First try ... the gun cocked fine ... but would only fall to half cock. Took a couple of tries cutting one coil at a time ... but is functioning "normally" now ...
The "only falls to half cock" issue is most likely due to the "fly" (#53) not being in the tumbler (#54) or like the plunger, it is gummed up with oil or dirt.
With the lock removed, try to find the fly.
You should be able to move it back and forth with a toothpick or maybe your finger. It should move easily and freely.
The purpose of the fly is, when the gun is at full cock, if the "set triggers" are used to fire the gun, the blade on the top of the "rear trigger" is slammed upward into the sear arm. This knocks the sear out of the full cock notch but, immediately after this happens, the sear spring and plunger pushes the sear back against the now moving tumbler.
As the tumbler rotates towards the fired position the nose of the sear is right in line to pop into the half cock notch.
This is where the "fly comes in.
It blocks off the half cock notch when the sear approaches it from the "full cocked" position and causes the sear to jump over the half cock notch.
That allows the rotating tumbler to continue on its way so the hammer hits the cap or nipple.
By the way, if the fly is in the tumbler and it is working like it should, as I said, it will NOT allow the nose of the sear to enter the half cock notch if the hammer has been cocked to any position above half cock.
The only way to get the gun to set at half cock is to have the hammer below the "half cock" position and then raise it slowly listening for the "click" as the sear starts to enter the half cock notch.
Once this click is heard, you can lower the hammer and the sear will stop it at half cock.
Check out the fly and let us know if it is there and if it moves easily.
With the lock removed, try to find the fly.
You should be able to move it back and forth with a toothpick or maybe your finger. It should move easily and freely.
The purpose of the fly is, when the gun is at full cock, if the "set triggers" are used to fire the gun, the blade on the top of the "rear trigger" is slammed upward into the sear arm. This knocks the sear out of the full cock notch but, immediately after this happens, the sear spring and plunger pushes the sear back against the now moving tumbler.
As the tumbler rotates towards the fired position the nose of the sear is right in line to pop into the half cock notch.
This is where the "fly comes in.
It blocks off the half cock notch when the sear approaches it from the "full cocked" position and causes the sear to jump over the half cock notch.
That allows the rotating tumbler to continue on its way so the hammer hits the cap or nipple.
By the way, if the fly is in the tumbler and it is working like it should, as I said, it will NOT allow the nose of the sear to enter the half cock notch if the hammer has been cocked to any position above half cock.
The only way to get the gun to set at half cock is to have the hammer below the "half cock" position and then raise it slowly listening for the "click" as the sear starts to enter the half cock notch.
Once this click is heard, you can lower the hammer and the sear will stop it at half cock.
Check out the fly and let us know if it is there and if it moves easily.
Told you these fellas could help you. Be careful with this gunsmith thing, next thing these fellas will do is try and talk you into building rifles and posting pictures.
posting pictures :shocked2: 
gave up
gave upI recall seeing the "fly" and it seemed to move freely. I'll take another look tomorrow.
The seller has offered a refund but if I can feel the gun is safe I would like to keep it. Mebbe I'll bring it along and stop in Phoenix for an expert inspection on our annual late Winter trip out to Quartzsite ...
The seller has offered a refund but if I can feel the gun is safe I would like to keep it. Mebbe I'll bring it along and stop in Phoenix for an expert inspection on our annual late Winter trip out to Quartzsite ...
I think I'd also be inclined to soak the lock in Kroil, 50 50 ATF -acetone, etc. overnight, then carefully take it apart and lightly polish those surfaces that bear on each other. Lubrication is the final step.
Well I took it back off last night and the "fly" did move freely ... but there seemed to be a bit of grit throughout the lock ... not bad but present. So I sprayed it down with what I had at hand, WD-40, and layed it on paper towels to "drain".
The lock seems to be functioning normally ... or at least the same as my other T/C locks ... A little concerned about the cheap ball point pen spring ... but it's not hard to make another one.
Another question. I am taking empty .22 brass and cutting it down with diagonal cutters and using them as 'snap caps' to avoid beating the heck out of the nipple. Anyone see a problem with this ... ?
The lock seems to be functioning normally ... or at least the same as my other T/C locks ... A little concerned about the cheap ball point pen spring ... but it's not hard to make another one.
Another question. I am taking empty .22 brass and cutting it down with diagonal cutters and using them as 'snap caps' to avoid beating the heck out of the nipple. Anyone see a problem with this ... ?
I don't see a problem with it. I'm not a big fan of dry firing period but that's me.
robinsroost
50 Cal.
Obx-Txn said:
What a novel idea, wish I had thought of it, LOL. I don't see a problem because the brass in a .22 shell is much softer than the nipple. They are not as soft as the copper cup of a percussion cap, but should still protect the nipple. Keep yer powder dry.......robin :hmm:
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I want to "function test" the lock repeatedly to assure myself it is reliable before actually firing the rifle.
It also served the purpose of "tapping" Kroil down around the nipple which seemed a little tight as in past tense. I just applied light pressure and the nipple came right out ...
It also served the purpose of "tapping" Kroil down around the nipple which seemed a little tight as in past tense. I just applied light pressure and the nipple came right out ...
For my muskets ... I have taken two brass spent musket caps and taken a small dab of Shoe Goo and put on top of one, then put the other spent cap on top of that one so the Goo forms a bit of "cushion" to attenuate the hammer blow.
Seems to be good for about 20 or so "snaps" and I can see no peening of the nipple ...
I meant to ask the forum about this before ... because sometimes what I think is a good idea ... just means I'm too ignorant to consider consequences ..
But I'm wandering a adrift of me own thread ... :shocked2:
Seems to be good for about 20 or so "snaps" and I can see no peening of the nipple ...
I meant to ask the forum about this before ... because sometimes what I think is a good idea ... just means I'm too ignorant to consider consequences ..
But I'm wandering a adrift of me own thread ... :shocked2:
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