Just recently bought a .36 T/C Hawken,and I'm having the devils own trouble getting it to shoot good groups. I've only got access to Wano 2f,and I'm using home cast Lyman .350 round ball. To get it to shoot any good at all I'm having to use 70gn of 2f and a 20 thou patch,but that's blowing the hammer back to half cock and is a real pain in the butt to load after 2 shots. 35gn of 2f just will not shoot at all,we're talking 4 or 5 inch groups at 25m. I don't have ready access to myriads of different powders and projectiles like you guys in the USA do,so I'm adamant to make it work. My next try I'll be using a flask that measures 21gn per load,and trying some 3mm thick leather wads between the powder and ball,as doing that has helped in the past. Does anyone else have one of these rifles,and if so,what load do you use and did you have heaps of trouble like I seem to be ? I'm not new to this,my 2 .50 cals will shoot 1½ to 2" at 50m when I'm shooting well,I even get my 12g Grundmann shotgun to shoot reasonably well at 25m,so I'm really perplexed as to why this 36 cal is giving me trouble. Help please !
T/C Trouble's
- Thread starter Bigpete
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Dunno why this occurred to me; factory barrel? Can you determine the twist?
Winchester97
40 Cal
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70 gr. Is definantly a bit high, evident in the hammer blowback. 20-35 gr. Or so should be turning in good groups.Might want to check a few fired patches. Anytime a rifle has turned in a wild group, it's been due to the patch material tearing, or burning through. The leather wad should protect the patches some. If accuracy picks up after adding the wad, then I bet its your patch material failing due to burn through. If your recovered patches are not damaged, and these are pre lubed commercial patches, Might benefit from trying some other patch material like ticking, or pocket drill, etc. Unless the bore is completely trashed, theres a load combo to be found that will get you what you want for accuracy.
Do you wipe between shots? Some guns demand it. One damp not dripping patch down and up and then flip the patch and down and up again. Not all guns need it, it depends on the patch lube. Good luck with the gun.
Try 40 grns of 3f. Wipe between shots. Your nipple (cone) might be worn out or possibly drilled out which could be the cause of hammer blow back. 2f will tend to build up more fowling in the smaller bores quicker than 3f. When I'm looking into the accuracy of a BP firearm I always wipe between shots.
At this point in time I've not been able to find any patches,although I suspect they're not being burnt through as the same material works fine in my 50s. Still,it would be good to find one or 2 for confirmation. When I've used them before it was under a lee minie so no patches to worry about.
No I don't
As I said,I can't readily get other powders. I'm stuck with 2f. You're idea of the nipple being drilled or worn out may have some merit,as water runs pretty darn freely from it when I clean her. Still,I doubt that contributes or detracts from the accuracy.
The nipple is shot, worn nipples cause significant loss of accuracy. It may take 70grn charges to push the hammer far enough back to get it to half-cock. But lower charges are very likely releasing back pressures also. The release of pressures are random with worn nipples, causing random bore pressures available for the projectile.
The release of back pressure at the nipple orifice causes it's own damage referred to as "gas cutting", and each shot contributes to the damage.
Hammer blow-back is sign the nipple is already finished and a replacement is due.
It's a simple fix.
Huh. Well in that case,do you know what nipple I'd need for it ?
Unless you got a custom shop build, TC did not make the Hawken in a 36 caliber. They did make a few Cleland 40 calibers, for match shooting. The norm was 45, 50 and some 54's. Having some detailed pictures would help a lot, including close ups of any barrel markings and the nipple etc.. A complete description to include barrel length, width of the barrel and any markings (including underneath) would help also.
dragnetbill
36 Cal.
Are you sure you have a Hawken model? T/C made a scaled down model called the Seneca that looked similar to the beefer Hawken. I don't believe that they ever made a Hawken model with a .36 barrel.
Assuming that it is a Seneca, you should refrain from your 70 grain load; the maximum load for the Seneca .36 in the T/C manual is 60 grains and that is twice as much powder than I've ever used in mine. A T/C manual dated 7/1/90 lists loads for the Seneca starting at 40 grains fffg which they state is the load they found to be most accurate. As necchi stated above a new nipple is a good place to start. Additionally if the rifle was stored long term with something like bore butter in the barrel the grooves could be caked with dried up lube and may need a good scrubbing.
Additionally, you should check that your rear sight is not loose. Also the Seneca rear sight has what the manual calls a "Positive Lock" set screw for windage. It is a small allen head screw in the front (as you look at the sight from the muzzle) of the windage base. It is what it is; in my experience if it is not tightened down the windage blade has quite a bit of play unless the elevation is all the way down.
A good photo of your rifle might help to identify exactly what you have.
dragnetbill
36 Cal.
Early production didn't have model names on the barrels; that is a Seneca.
Again, a caution about heavy loads; these rifles are pretty thin at the wrist and are prone to cracking with heavy loads.
Besides the tips given above, I would also check to see if there is looseness or play of the barrel in the stock. I have used some thin shim material to take some play out of my Senecas; but, don't over do it or you could crack the stock.
Good luck. Look forward to your updates.
Treestalker
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How about your lube? What do you use? It can make a real difference. Of course the best lube is the spit of a Mexican virgin...
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i agree that the nipple is suspect if it's blowing back to half cock. Replace the nipple and see if that has any effect.
Measure the dimension of your barrel across the flats. A T/C Seneca will have a 13/16" barrel across the flats. The "Hawken" will have a 15/16" barrel. Drop in barrels of 36 caliber were sold but they won't have T/C markings.
Now, as many others have observed, your nipple is shot out and must be replaced by a 1/4-28 nipple. The worn out nipple is responsible for wildly varying internal pressures with subsequent loss of accuracy. It seems as if you found some replacement nipples.
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That appears to be a TC Seneca stock.
