TC problem, please help

[ctw]

This is a bit of a story, hope you are comfortable.
I am the shooting sports director at a boy scout camp. In the camp season before I was hired, a student used a pre-lubed patch and ball and loaded his rifle. The percussion cap fired, but apparently the powder was moist and did not fire. A ball puller, both regular on a work rod and kinetic, were used with no success. Then I come in the next year to work with no knowledge that there is a shot stuck in one barrel. Thinking there was fouling buildup, I attached a scraper to a work rod and went to work. The scraper became stuck in the lead ball and when I attempted to removed to work rod, the scraper broke off of the rod. So now I have a barrel with a patched lead ball stuck in it with a fouling scaper stuck in the lead ball.
To remove this obstruction, I have soaked the barrel in boiling water, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, blakc powder solvent, and a few other things I cannot recall right now. Basically, noting has loosened the shot. I also have liberally lubricated the bore with bore butter and holding the barrel upside down, tapped the muzzle on a board trying to get the shot out. No dice. Those neat CO2 things that attach to the nipple do not work. Apparently, the patch is bunched up between the ball and the bore because there is a very small passage where the carbon dioxide can escape out the muzzle. I've also tried putting a little water in the nipple area and then freezing the barrel and trying the CO2 again, thinking the ice would seal around the shot. Again, no luck. I also tried putting a few grains of powder in the lock area (it is a sidelock rife) and then replacing the nipple and firing it...no dice. Between using nipple picks and all the liquid soaking, I am fairly certain the charge is dead. A gunsmith at TC said that the breech plug will be hard to get off, since it hasn't been removed in 20 years, since the gun was made. But I was thinking I could clamp the barrel, heat up the area of the breech around the breech plug threads, and use a pipe wrench or vice grips and twist it off. Does that sound like it would work? I would greatly appreciate any suggestion anyone can offer me. Thanks alot

 

[Tracy]

Remove the nipple and replace it with a 1/4by 28 grease zirk.Take a grease gun and pump away.Do not stand in front of the barrel,if it is stuck hard it will come out quite fast.

 

[Tracy]

When you remove the nipple put the nipple end of the barrel in a bucket of water for a few minutes to make sure the powder is wet.

 

What ever you do, DO NOT HEAT THE BREACH. Even very old black powder loads, civil war and the like, have been known to still be explosive. You may have soaked the load and killed the charge but there is a chance you didn't. Try the grease gun and and fitting and if that doesn't work take the barrel to a qualified gunsmith to remove the breach plug and remove the load. Even a new barrel is cheaper than taking any chances.
Mark

 

[bart_anastasi]

First and formost if you are not a trained person with the right tools do not take the barrel apart.

Do not heat it with a torch or flame since a charge could have dried if there is a charge which would be bad.

It is possible that the ball was ramed home without a charge any way.

A proper breach plug tool is needed to remove a breach plug. Many years ago T/C used to sell them to anyone and stoped since so many half ... boobs have meesed up their guns.

if there is no one around to take the gun to.

try to dry out the chamber of the gun behind the ball. Brake cleaning fluid would be good for this.

If the gun has a clean out screw in is below where the nipple is take it out and run a pipe cleaner in there. Then relpace the clean out screw.

Leave the thing to dry

With your powder measure measure about 5 to 10 grains of powder and work the powder into the back of the gun thru the nipple hole.

Cap the gun and fire making sure you have a clear hole in the nipple.

If 5 to 10 grains of powder will not get the ball out take it to the local gunsmith.

 

[ctw]

Jess,
I will get a grease zerk, but do I want a regular pneumatic grease gun from like Lowes or Home Depot?

 

[roundball]

Jess,
I will get a grease zerk, but do I want a regular pneumatic grease gun from like Lowes or Home Depot?

Only if you have an air compressor to operate it...otherwise just a pump handle type.

But a better approach might be to install the grease fitting, then go to a service station that does lube jobs and ask them if they'll use their air driven grease gun to push it out...might need to offer to buy them a hamburger for lunch or something.

I'm lucky to have an air compressor in my garage and did just that last year...worked great...then remove the grease fitting and with the nipple seat down inside a coffee can or trash can, etc, put a dry patch on a cleaning jag and push it down through the bore...that'll expel 99% of the grease with a single stroke...then a couple more patches, then just clean the bore like you would after a range session.

 

[Tracy]

Yes.Just a plain ole grease gun like you would use on your car lawn mower ect.They have battery operated ones but they are more expensive.After you get the ball out put a patch on a jag and push the grease out of the nipple hole.Then I take a quart jar with diesel fuel or gas stick the end of the barrel and run a patched jag up and down a few times to flush out grease.Then clean in hot soapy water.Let me know how you get along.

 

[ctw]

Ok, I'll try the grease gun, it'll take me a few days as I don't have one and I've gotta find a zerk. I'll write back on here after I do it, probably a couple of days. My 8-year old has a Tae-Kwon-Do tournament tomorrow, so probably write Sunday or Monday.

 

[chapmans]

I thought TC guns had a lifetime warranty,I would call them back and see if you could send it back,if the grease gun doesn't work.
Longball58

 

[roundball]

I thought TC guns had a lifetime warranty,I would call them back and see if you could send it back,if the grease gun doesn't work.
Longball58

They do but this is not a product defect, its an end user problem

 

[RedFeather]

Someone on one of the auction sites had T/C breech wrenchs for sale but they were pricey. You could possibly measure the breech plug and have someone make a wrench for you to fit. You could put some penetrating oil down the bore and let it stand (outside of the stock, of course) for a couple of days before trying to debreech it.

Not a ML but similar problem. Bought an old airgun that had a CO2 cartridge stuck in it. Someone suggested using a rod with something like JB weld on the end to stick it to the cartridge, let harden and pull out. Didn't try it, but, as a last resort, it may work. Of course, it would be the devil to get out of the bore should it smear.

 

[longcruise]

Ok, I'll try the grease gun, it'll take me a few days as I don't have one and I've gotta find a zerk.

It's possible that when they originally tried to pull the ball they screwed the ball puller all the way through the ball. That would explain the air leak with the co-2 system.

There may not be any powder down there. Try measureing with your rod and then compare to the outside of the barrel. Remember to allow for the breech plug threaded area which is smaller in diameter than the bore. Even without powder, the ball would have stopped there.

You could try screwing another ball puller into the ball and then try the co2 and or grease gun. If there is a hole in the ball, the grease is just going to go on through it.

I have sent my TC back to the factory twice with owner induced problems that were obviously caused by me. They fixed em anyway. :thumbsup:

 

[curator]

Craig,

Go for the zerk fitting grease gun approach. It works every time. I have done this many times for our Scout Camp and our T/C New Englanders. I use a hand pump grease gun since it will actually give more pressure and powder. It wouldn't hurt to put some penetrating oil down the bore for a couple of days prior to pumping it full of grease.

Having done the Boy Scout/muzzle loading rifle gig for about 25 years, I have gotten pretty good at getting things out of T/C barrels. If you have a good nipple wrench, I would start with removing the nipple and putting about 5-10 grains of FFFFg black powder in the flash channel. Next replace the nipple. Re-seat the ball so it is all the way to the breech and fire it into the berm. Pay attention to see that it exits the barrel. This takes less time to do than to wrtie about it. I always have a small flask with FFFFg handy for just such situation. If you want to chat about scout shooting programs and equipment e-mail me off line at [email protected]

 

[Regulis7]

The grease gun and grease nipple works every time, at least it has for me on 6 different percussion barrels with either stuck charges/bullets or stuck cleaning jags. Just be careful where the barrel is pointing because light objects tend to shoot out with enough force to break a passenger side window on a F150... been there... done that!!!

Down side is the cleanup.

 

[roundball]

Air often slips past a ball by going around it through the grooves...has to be a large enough volume of high pressure air injected all at once to offset the constant bleeding off around the ball through the grooves...if the volume of air doesn't overwhelm the ability of it to bleed off around the ball it won't move

 

[RedFeather]

No plug but search on T/c breech wrench and you should get a hit. Not nearly as expensive as I thought they were. Machine shop copies of factory set of three sizes. Good luck!

 

[Harley Donaldson]

When you have leaks past the obstruction you can push a couple of oiled patches down on top then insert the ramrod. put the outward end of the ramrod against something solid to maintain a seal. then you can use a co2 discharger or a grease gun to expel the ball. by holding pressure against the ramrod you can control how fast the ball is moved and just ease the rod and ball out of the barrel. Have used this several times and never had a failure or expeled the rod with any force.

 

[BrownBear]

I'm concerned that if it's leaking CO2, it's likely to leak grease too fast to do you any good. Something such as Harvey suggests might be a big help.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, grease is thick enough that it will easily push out a stuck bullet or ball even if it has a little leakage around it.

It may even be thick enough to seal up the leakage and allow a CO2 discharger to blow out the offending projectile.