Teepee question

[chipper]

I have a 12' teepee that I'm planning to pack in to my elk camp this year. We use a 4 wheel atv and trailer to tote our stuff back to camp. About 8 miles on dirt roads. I need the camp essentials to be as small as possible and 14 teepee poles are just to much to carry.

Has anyone set up a teepee with just a small number of poles? I read once that it could be done with as little as 4 poles.

What does one do about the smoke flaps?

Can the poles be cut in half a have a rod inserted that will make them strong enough to support the canvas. If so, what are the specifics? How long does the metal rod have to be?


How about the liner? Is there anything special I need to do with it?

Regards
Loyd
The Saxon Barbarian

 

[hobbles]

Loyd,
I made a 12 ft one and liked it 0k, but,,
I used 3 polls that I cut in 3 pieces and used pvc to slid em together , worked fine till I found / tried a miners tent (pyramid), that was the end of the tipi (not teepee) You do want 3 poles tho, and the wind will NOT blow it down,, I know,,,
Smoke flaps are very important, make sure they are big enough
The liner is also very important,, make sure the bottom of your tipi is at least 6" off the ground, and the liner is ON the ground, The heat from the fire inside will draw the cold air from the bottom of your lodge and send the smoke out the top, You adjust the temp and smoke with the flaps, If you don't have em adjusted right,,, you will know,,, trust me on that one,, If there is a wrong way of doin somethin, just give me time,, I will find it,, There are a few books out on tipi adequate and are worth reeadin

 

[chipper]

Thanks, I'll try the pvc trick and see how it works.

Regards

 

[Holley]

I have made many a small tipi and the "slipped" poles with plastic are a nice idea. The problem lies in water running down the poles and hitting the area where it is all connected.
Gets a bit drippy. You can use rain sticks to help channel the water, but you are still dealing with a horizontal break in the poles.

As for the cover being so far off the ground.....this idea started with the Luabins and is not historically correct or needed, nor is the liner unless it is REALY cold. A tipi does not need a liner for drawing a fire. The fire will draw just as well with the cover ALL the way to the ground. Try it....

 

[hobbles]

mornin tipis
To each his/her own but as far as bein historically correct, That means nothin to me, as for it taken the smoke out with it on the ground, that ain't the way it worked for me, and the liner did help, a lot, But he now has two options to chose from and that's what this board is about,,

 

[Holley]

In my case, it is facts haveing spent over 35 years living and making tipis. Because Laubin put such an emphasis on his fitted tipi liner, we have all come to think that is the only way to go. But historical documentation shows other wise on liners. They either did not have them or used them only when necessary. So...if the Indians didn't need them for a fire with the cover all the way to the ground, why do we....except not to get the cover dirty, mildewed or rotted on the botton edge. Something to think about???? I live in Fla. and have found the liner not necessary untill it does get real cold.

But as we say, this is only Opinion...how many of us have camped in our lodges without the liner for any length of time and how many have camped with out covers ALL the way pegged on the ground? I have also camped and lived in Washington State, and found that a liner was needed more for the rainy and cold times.....not at all for the warmer times.

:imo:

 

[narrowcanoe]

the liner certainly makes a difference. When the tipi is above the ground and the liner is on the ground the draft pulls upward instead of bellowing from the ground up. I've appreciated that aspect of a liner for a long time.

 

[hobbles]

Hello again tipis
I don't know of this Laubin person, I just found in my way of campin, I liked the liner if I used a fire in my lodge,

Washington State huh, I liked the time I spent up there, I rode a horse cross it back in the 70, I was doin it for bout 4 to 5 months, It was nice,, Just got lonely for people after awhile and came home, for a bit,, There is more food up there then there is in a supermarket,, I crossed the mountian twice,other was in Az, I'm to old to do it again, I'll go out for bout 2 weeks, then I ready to go home,, times they are achangin,,

 

[Holley]

Ok....the point is that the tipi as not set above ground and the need for a liner was not there. Since the cover is on the ground, there is no cross wind or breeze inside the tipi, in fact, it is still cozy and warm. The smoke still goes straight up through the smoke flaps. I have camped like this in the cold, wet weather with no problem. When I did need a liner, I did what the Indians did do...put up a buffalo hide tied to the poles hangind down with my bed or parfleches pushed up against the hide or a piece of large cloth doing the same. No wind on my back and still the fire drew nicely with no smoke. And burning good wood helps....and I was also using buffalo chips. They burn hot and clear. I was surprised at that.

The Laubins wrote the definitive book that almost all tipi makers use as the pattern for making tipis.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806122366/qid=1129050972/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-4998005-4069760?v=glance&s=books
Before them was Ben Hunt, Soloman and Clark Wistler(sp)and a few others. But the formal patterns and liners are from Laubin 1957. :imo:

 

[hobbles]

The Laubins wrote the definitive book that almost all tipi makers use as the pattern for making tipis.

Interestin, I'll have to get his book, I built my own, I had a few friends out west that their parents and such lived in tipi's in the old days and I built mine the way they said to,
I'm sure different tribes did things different, That's why you do it the way you do, If it works for you then I would keep doin it that way, It just never worked for me that way, I never ran across to many buffalo chips where I was at, I just used wood,, I have made stuff out of buffalo hide tho, I still got a lil left,

 

[hobbles]

I know this is off topic but one of them that gave me the info on buildin the lodge made this for me, It was a long time ago and I am sorry to say I can't remember the name of the warrior that is carved into the rock, He's got beads on the front and one feather on the left side, It all meant somethin, I was told to carry it with me on my far roams and I would be safe,, guess it worked,

Their are a lot of different tribes out west, I made a lot of friends, I liked bein round all of em cept the yackees, there from deep down south (not in country) I never felt right to turn my back on one, knew a few, and I'll be darn if they didn't respect that, There a strange tribe

 

[Holley]

what tribe did they say they were or what group was the tipi pattern based on? Do not recognize the items??? Do you have a picture of the other side of the items or bags? do you have pictures of your tipi???

 

[hobbles]

tipis afternoon,
ahh girl, that was long long ago and far far away, I was told a pattern but we went to the up highs on horse back, so I only used 3 poles with a ring on top with hooks on the top of the polls to hold the ring up. I sewed rope into the tipi and braided the bottoms to put stakes in the ground and hold it up, so it would have the shape, We needed it light and fast to put up and take down so we could move on,It all fit on our pack animals, My friends would stop by and give me pointers on the lining and I learnt fast bout tipi adequate, I was welcome to eat with em and the ladies liked to cook, BUT THEY AIN'T DOIN NO STINKIN DISHES,, So I learnt to bring my own, (you know all this stuff, I was just remembering and enjoyin it,, sorry) I do have pictures of the tipi packed away some where, I use a miners tent now,
**Do you have a picture of the other side of the items or bags?**
other side of what bag ? the bag in the picture I made, My friend made the rock, As for what tribe, there was a lot of tribes out there and my friends were from different ones,
I don't remember them, Heck girl, I don't remember what nationalitys my friends are back here, I'm lucky to remember there names,,

 

[Holley]

what did you use for smoke flap poles? Was this tipi ever set up with all poles or just the 3 poles and this ring with rope configuration only???

 

[hobbles]

tipis
I forgot bout the smoke flap poles, (nother reason I like the miners tent) When we had a base camp or we wagon wheeled from where we had the truck I had reg, smoke flap poles, when we went to the up highs, we found sticks up there to use, I made some 3 piece poles for that also but we never took em, No I never had more then the 3 poles for the main part, didn't need em, I liked the room the tipi gives and and the way it would hold up to the wind, plus if anything touched the sides, it wouldn't get wet like nylon tents do, I always wonder what they would of done if they had velcro back in the old days, I know they used what they could get and used it well, I find I make stuff like they used back then because it all worked so darn good, I was at a base camp one time when the wind was blowin and some friends left their BIG motor home and stayed in my lodge, they felt safer,,

 

[hobbles]

Loyd
This is a picture of a picture, Hope it comes out,,

Not very good but you can almost sea the pvc on the left side on the pole,,

 

[chipper]

I did some messing around this weekend and I found that if I used the basic 3 pole tripod and a fourth pole as a lifting pole everything went pretty well. I then secured several long pieces of rope to the top of the tripod. After the tipi was rolled out and set up, I secured the ends of extra pieces of rope with tent stakes and used them just like extra poles. The sides of the lodge weren't as taught as usual but the rope helped to spread out the canvas and make the inside of the lodge visiably larger. With this type of a setup, I can get away with 4 poles for the lodge and 2 smoke poles for a total of 6 poles. The cuts the total number of poles I ussually use in half and should work quite well in my elk camp. I don't expect rain at 10,000 feet so I don't think the problems associated with water running down the rope should be an issue.

Thanks to every one with your help.

Regards
Wounded Knee

 

[Riley/MN]

I set up our Troop's tipi (for the first time) at rendezvous last week. Now I don't mean we had never set this tipi up at 'vous before, I mean we had never set this tipi up before. Knowing how many of the 'skinners at this particular event knew it was the virgin erection (boy, that didn't sound good) of this tipi, my assistant Scoutmaster and myself gulped hard and got to it.

There was a semi-circle of camp chairs formed by the time we got the poles off the top of the truck. We managed to get the pointy side up and not embarrass ourselves too bad.

We had a lot of "help" from the peanut gallery, but one guy I decided to listen to was the one that said he'd been doing this either since '54 or for 54 years-I don't remember which.

Anyway, I got ta talking to him later and he said that there were 3 types of tipi pre-whiteman. The Sioux-style, which used a tri-pod base, the Cheyenne-style, which used the four-pole base, and the Utes had a travelling tipi that their hunters used that had a total of four poles. I wonder if their design was similar to yours.

 

[Holley]

Hate to tell you this....but you are wrong on most those counts. There is a three and a four pole style. The Dakota groups did use a three pole on most occations and so did the Cheyenne, Arapaho and other plains tribes. The four pole is mostly Blackfoot, Sarcee, Nez Perce, Comanche and Crow. And to tell you the truth...hard to tell the difference when looking at covers.

The Laubins started "cookie" cutting tribes into different smoke flap styles which unforturnatly cannot be used to identify either.

 

[Riley/MN]

....but you are wrong on most those counts.

Well, at least I KNOW that I don't know what I'm talkin about. :haha: That's why I made a point of mentioning that it was info as passed on to me...

The Laubins started "cookie" cutting tribes into different smoke flap styles which unforturnatly cannot be used to identify either.

:hmm: Sure wish I knew where ta get me some other readin material on tipis...

Keep us posted on the book.

:thanks: