Tell me why you like your Traditions Kentucky?

[Fifty Four]

Definitely agree about ditching the factory nosecap, and also fitting another tenon. With mine, built up the nose of the stock with wood and put on a longer (sheet brass) nosecap, rather than shorten the barrel. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

 

[sturmkatze]

Personally, I don't care for the two-piece stock, if I were to buy any Traditions rifle it would be their Pennsylvania rifle. In my opinion, it's a much nicer look gun.

They shortened the barrel. It used to be 40". I think it throws it off a bit

 

[M. De Land]

The upside of 12L14 is that is more likely to expand if something is done wrong as opposed to higher carbon steel which may explode. Since another poster posted his credentials here are mine
40 years tool and die . To complete my apprenticeship I had to take courses in Metalurgy from the Rochester Institute of Technology. I also still do my own heat treating

No, that's not the reality of 12L14 steel characteristics. This steel is made for screw stock application . It machines very well and is much cheaper to purchase than is barrel certified steel.
It's weakness is in shock load resistance which is very low compared to other gun barrel certified steel and it gets worse as the temperature drops.
The relatively low pressure of black powder combustion is the only reason more accidents are not occurring regularly. If nothing occurs that causes a pressure spike all will usually be fine but I have witnessed even a short started ball take a 12L14 barrel apart. There is no safety margin for loading error in barrels made of this steel alloy especially when cold rolled stock is used.

 

[yellowhammer]

...They look so much better without those cheesy nose caps...

A Kentucky rifle without a nose cap?!? Nahh.....

 

[M. De Land]

And this is factually correct.

Like I said before in this thread, I own and shoot 12L14 steel barrels. The majority of custom rifle/smoothbore barrels are made from 12L14. Not all, but most. Not every 12L14 barrel bursts/shatters, OBVIOUSLY.

If I was that concerned I would not shoot any 12L14 barrel, ever. But yet I do.

I believe, through experience of my own and through others, that 12L14 offers very little, if any, of a safety margin.

LaSalle Steel has repeatedly stated that 12L14 alloy should not be used in gun barrels.

Traditions Performance Firearms uses chromoly steel steel in their barrels. That could be anything from 4130 to 4150 (I'm leaving out some alloys!). Chromoly steel is what the industry has determined through engineering to be appropriate for "ordnance steel".

Ten series carbon steel and 1137 have very close to the same strengths as does chrome- moly alloys and is what Green Mtn. uses for muzzle loading barrels.
A very good read on gun barrel steel is P. O. Ackleys book on barrel making and another is Hatchers notes , a book on ordinance steel in barrel and action construction.
I have a copy of what a LaSalles steel metallurgist reported on 12L14 showing what it's strengths and weaknesses are in comparison to the various barrel certified steels made for the industry .In the report it was stated that a good barrel steel should have a shock load rating of 42 in a notch test and cold rolled 12L14 was less than 6 on this critical shock load testing scale.

 

[NorthFork]

Ten series carbon steel and 1137 have very close to the same strengths as does chrome- moly alloys and is what Green Mtn. uses for muzzle loading barrels.
A very good read on gun barrel steel is P. O. Ackleys book on barrel making and another is Hatchers notes , a book on ordinance steel in barrel and action construction.
I have a copy of what a LaSalles steel metallurgist reported on 12L14 showing what it's strengths and weaknesses are in comparison to the various barrel certified steels made for the industry .In the report it was stated that a good barrel steel should have a shock load rating of 42 in a notch test and cold rolled 12L14 was less than 6 on this critical shock load testing scale.

I agree. GM's use of 1137 is appropriate.

 

[Erwan]

Don't care about the 12L14, this is not a perfect steel for a lot of utilization, but for all the BP barrels it does largely the job: no blow-up during the official tests of Eibar, Gardone, or Saint-Etienne...
What about the barrels and steel of the 18th or 19th century? Too-hard steel isn't the best for it: it's better to have swelling than a barrel that cracks because the steel is too hard......

 

[M. De Land]

Don't care about the 12L14, this is not a perfect steel for a lot of utilization, but for all the BP barrels it does largely the job: no blow-up during the official tests of Eibar, Gardone, or Saint-Etienne...
What about the barrels and steel of the 18th or 19th century? Too-hard steel isn't the best for it: it's better to have swelling than a barrel that cracks because the steel is too hard......

I've read a metallurgist report on it, have personally witnessed one barrel from a big name producer made of it come apart and know that Douglas barrel company stopped making barrels from the alloy after several failures they were sued for.
I'm told the notch test numbers improve when hot rolled but still are not near what barrel certified steel alloys are.
The point is to limit risk and to use inferior steel when much better are available does not make much sense.
I've read the reason it continues is because muzzle loading comes under the heading of reloading from a legal stand point and thus has some shelter from suit.
Another reason is 12L14 when hot rolled does have more resistance to shock load then when cold rolled.

 

[Erwan]

12L14 steel is not "rolled/welded". In sheet metal, 12L14 is worthless, but in bars treated and drilled, it is good gun steel...
It's not "somebody told me, or I have heard that": in fifty years, I have personally made four guns that went through the Saint-Etienne test bench, came back accepted and used (smooth bores for arquebuses 58 cal., but the same was if there had been rifled). This is only valid for black powder and not for smokeless and not for rolled/welded plates: only bars drilled...

 

[NorthFork]

12L14 steel is not "rolled/welded". In sheet metal, 12L14 is worthless, but in bars treated and drilled, it is good gun steel...
It's not "somebody told me, or I have heard that": in fifty years, I have personally made four guns that went through the Saint-Etienne test bench, came back accepted and used (smooth bores for arquebuses 58 cal., but the same was if there had been rifled). This is only valid for black powder and not for smokeless and not for rolled/welded plates: only bars drilled...

The steel bar you reference was either cold rolled or hot rolled. It does not matter if it's 1018 or 12L14 or 4150CMV. It is rolled at the mill, either cold or hot, period.

 

[Erwan]

That's right, but without welding, and this is important, maybe the more important of it is welded or drilled...
I'm not a metallurgist too, but I use it, and I did it without any problem, we can talk long, long time about this class of metal or another with probing results or not…

 

[M. De Land]

That's right, but without welding, and this is important, maybe the more important of it is welded or drilled...
I'm not a metallurgist too, but I use it, and I did it without any problem, we can talk long, long time about this class of metal or another with probing results or not…

It's your choice but just don't make any mistakes when loading. I too have a barrel made of it and it is accurate and I shoot it competitively on occasion but being a Douglas premium grade I am really careful about loading knowing full well some of them have come apart in the past. Douglas barrels I believe, were cold rolled barrel billets. Far as I know all barrel billets are either hot rolled or cold rolled.

 

[user 54762]

I bought the Traditions Model R2020 Kentucky from Old South Firearms (link); i.e. already completed. Heck, he had the finished gun cheaper than my local Cabelas had the kit! Finish is nice - no way could I have done as well myself. Contrary to earlier posts, my front cap fits perfect and the stock is tight, no gap, at the brass spacer. Shoots Hornady .490 balls very well with red pillow ticking patches lubed with mink oil over 60 gr Goex ffg. Sights were spot on at 50 yards right out of the box.

View attachment 185006

No way would I eliminate the spacer and glue the 2 pieces together - it's easy to pop it apart without punching pins and submerge the end of the barrel in hot soapy water for cleaning - spotless in 5 minutes! People gripe about the ramrod spring popping out - well heck just don't pull the lock screw all the way out for crying out loud lol. Put tape over the screw head like the manual suggests, or pop a snap ring or a twist of wire around the screw inside the stock to keep it from backing out. I did fiddle around with it , i.e. messed with the trigger to get the play out and get a good 3 lb pull; etc, but mostly it needed nothing I just can't leave well enough alone.

Good bang for the buck. I like it - I dont see ever getting rid of it.

ETA my stock's comb is straight, not "Roman", and I get no cheek slap at all.

I never thought of it that way, I shouldn’t have epoxied mine. Definitely won’t if I ever make another one. Thanks for your input