The end of black powder?

[smoothy]

I occassionally run across Goex blackpowder in places you wouldn't expect. I was vacationing in Branson, MO in the mid-90's and went to Silver Dollar amusement park. They had a gunshop there and sold blackpowder guns, too. They had some ffg powder in a glass case, and they said it was for sale. I bought a pound. It didn't seem right to be able to walk around with the stuff in a brown paper bag. Bet you can't do it anymore.

 

[jaw69]

What mistake would leave more room for error smaller spark Smaller open flame Ha you try it not me:youcrazy: And yes when it comes to safe handling rules Black and the Subs are the same There is NO ROOM FOR ERROR. No smoking, No open flame or the ability to produce the same (lighters ,matches) ,No sparking metal at the loading station If it is a Flinter Open frizzen Cock down if it is a charged barrel it is loaded.Even at a public range I inform the range master I will have open Black powder at my station and request No smoking with in 25 feet of me and I do ask people to move I followed the same when I used pyrodex

 

[Dphar]

Black powder is more authentic but it's also more hazardous. That's the reason why it's classified as an explosive while the substitute powders aren't.
Black powder does present somewhat of a greater risk to use, no matter how slight.
It's just a factor that everyone should always be made aware of. I think that it's great that folks advocate that others should use black powder. But people also need to be fairly and honestly warned about the increased risks to not only themselves but also to others when they chose to use it with them present.

The reason BP is classified as a class A explosive is its IGNITION temperature its just a hair too low to be classified with other propellant powders. Classing it with HEs like C-4 etc is simply bureaucratic silliness.
Gasoline is easier to ignite and you drive around with large amount of the stuff all time. Static sparks will not ignite BP for example. Note the fumes pouring from the gas filler tube of your car at the next fill up.
BPs classification has little to do with how dangerous it is.
There was an entire truck load, in cases, that turned on its side on an eastern freeway a few years back. They opened the doors and loaded the cases on another truck.
Recent tests have shown that it is possible to fuse a center bottle in a case of BP at light the fuse. The ensuing explosion will only ignite 2-5 other bottles in the box. The others just get scorched.
BP is just as safe as the people handling it. Get careless with ANY propellant powder, gasoline, percussion caps or any number of our modern products we have contact with every day and you can end up dead.
Handling, shooting and storing BP is not any more dangerous IMO than putting gas in my car, perhaps less so.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

I occassionally run across Goex blackpowder in places you wouldn't expect. I was vacationing in Branson, MO in the mid-90's and went to Silver Dollar amusement park. They had a gunshop there and sold blackpowder guns, too. They had some ffg powder in a glass case, and they said it was for sale. I bought a pound. It didn't seem right to be able to walk around with the stuff in a brown paper bag. Bet you can't do it anymore.

JEEZ. People sure have been indoctrinated...
How do you deal with the danger of fueling your automobile?

Dan

 

[bkovire]

just a shooting club for bp shooters, here in town. and i was wrong on the 11$ per pound, it is at coast per pound when in bulk 25 pound mim 14$ per pound when sold per pound just don't have to pay for fright or the hazmat fee, so i think it is a good deal, i could be wrong :idunno:

 

[jaw69]

Sure you can I just did it Friday at Bass Pro walked in bought my powder then went shopping with the wife Then to dinner in the restaurant with the Black in a bag

 

[1911nutjob]

Black powder is more authentic but it's also more hazardous. That's the reason why it's classified as an explosive while the substitute powders aren't.
Black powder does present somewhat of a greater risk to use, no matter how slight.
It's just a factor that everyone should always be made aware of. I think that it's great that folks advocate that others should use black powder. But people also need to be fairly and honestly warned about the increased risks to not only themselves but also to others when they chose to use it with them present.

The reason BP is classified as a class A explosive is its IGNITION temperature its just a hair too low to be classified with other propellant powders. Classing it with HEs like C-4 etc is simply bureaucratic silliness.
Gasoline is easier to ignite and you drive around with large amount of the stuff all time. Static sparks will not ignite BP for example. Note the fumes pouring from the gas filler tube of your car at the next fill up.
BPs classification has little to do with how dangerous it is.
There was an entire truck load, in cases, that turned on its side on an eastern freeway a few years back. They opened the doors and loaded the cases on another truck.
Recent tests have shown that it is possible to fuse a center bottle in a case of BP at light the fuse. The ensuing explosion will only ignite 2-5 other bottles in the box. The others just get scorched.
BP is just as safe as the people handling it. Get careless with ANY propellant powder, gasoline, percussion caps or any number of our modern products we have contact with every day and you can end up dead.
Handling, shooting and storing BP is not any more dangerous IMO than putting gas in my car, perhaps less so.

Dan

Exactly, respect all propellants or the consequences could be catastrophic. An accident victim is not going to care if he was scorched, lost a limb, or was killed by bp, smokeless, or a sub. And lets not forget that a pyro accident also can supposedly release cyanide fumes to add to the fun.
Many years ago there was an accident out my way involving three guys reloading as a side business. Someone was foolishly smoking in the loading room, and a cigarette tumbled into an open powder container the equivalent of a 55 gallon drum (this was with smokeless). There wasn't much left of the victims to be recovered. I respect bp and heed all can warnings along with the NFC storage limits, but otherwise treat it the same as all my other stuff. The only special treatment I give bp is to try storing it in the least humid areas of the house, in small batches.

BTW, the compound used in percussion caps and primers is far more hazardous than anything mentioned above-it is a high explosive (and compared to c4, it has a "hair trigger"). I've never had a multiple primer detonation occur during reloading, and I don't want to. I can only imagine what the power factor of priming compound is using the military scale on the pound basis.

 

[leslie]

This is a heck of a thread all the way from availability to storage of powder.I think the rules about black powder are insane,where I live you are allowed to store 4# in your house or garage[shed]but I can put 50# in the trunk of a car and park it anywhere on the place.As to safety I think if you look around your garage or shop you will find a bunch of stuff that is as bad or worse than BP properly stored such as gasoline for the mower propane for the grill and even excessive accumulation of wood and other dust.I believe common sense is the operative word here.I can understand why the local shops don't carry BP.Getting it is still easy but more expensive all the time for what reason I am not sure but I think it has to do with the worthless dollar and charging all the traffic will stand.

 

[smoothy]

The point I was trying to make is how laws/regulations have changed over the last 20 years and how they could change more over the next 20. When I was in 8th grade the school district I was in included 5 small incorporated towns and a few more unincorporated. There was a grade school in each town and the 8th grade principals taught the hunter safety course at night, in the school, and you brought a gun with you for hands-on training. Bet you can't do that anymore. In college I took a 45 caliber percussion pistol to a speech class and shot off a cap for an attention getter. Bet you can't do that anymore. At my place of employment (1200 employees at the factory at the time) the plant manager left a 1847 Colt replica in his trunk and told me to get it, walk pass the guarded gate with it and shoot it for the weekend, then bring it back and put it in his trunk. Bet you can't do that anymore. I have 5 sons ranging from 3 years old to 27 years old. My 4 year old got reprimanded for making a gun out of Legos in pre-school. My 27 year old is in the Army and recently went through a course that taught him about every gun they have. Seems ironic to me.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Most military recruits today come from urban areas, where they have no ranges, and no gun stores, from families with NO history of legal gun ownership, much less any experience with hunting. The courses your son took in the military is designed to bring these new people up to speed. It doesn't, of course, but its a beginning.

Its the same with Police recruits. The Cities want college grads, and most have No prior experience with guns at all, much less hunting, or fighting. Police Academies have had to make huge increases in the budget for more ammunition for the recruits to shoot in order for them to qualify, on a watered down test, to be licensed to carry a firearm on duty. One instructor told me that within a week after he has a new class of recruits, he can point out a majority of them who won't be police officers at the end of 5 years. Its no longer a "career", but a good paying job while they find something " better".

They are Armed Historians, coming to the scene of a crime, and interviewing victims and witnesses to record what happened. They are Not expected to actually find the Bad guys. That is left to Detectives, who won't even see the file for a couple of days. Unlike our expectations on TV, there are NO Crime Scene technicians examining the crime scene to collect evidence in most crimes short of Murder. In many jurisdictions, the response to a home burglary is to send the victim a "lost property" form to fill out and mail back to the police station, and keep a copy to send to his insurance company. No officer comes out to the scene. No looking for fingerprint evidence, trace evidence, footprints. No pictures. No tool mark identification, no K-9 unit trying to locate the bad guys and your stolen property.

Not all police departments act this way, of course. But, the larger the city, the more likely this is what you will face. I consider it the SECOND MUGGING that victims get when they have been a victim of a crime. And its all legal!

The Best thing all of us can do to reverse this is to actively support clubs and organizations that provide firearms training to young people. If you are going to a range, take a kid with you. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[smoothy]

I agree. My oldest three sons have been through a hunter safety course. The oldest, the one in the Army now, went through the course offered by the City Park District. They didn't do any hands-on training. Stupidly, when I took him on his first hunt he had the gun pointing at me while unloading, which is when I realized the error of his training. The next 2 went through a course taught by an ex-Marine (I mean Marine).
Back to blackpowder. Son #2 (21 yrs old) and son #3 (14 yrs old) hunt blackpowder with me. It better not be the end of blackpowder.