The FIRST Bowie Knife??

[Loyalist Dave]

The Hatfield McCoy fight where in several mcoys jumped a hatfild an stabbed him several times would be more typical.

Let us not forget..., Julius Caesar! :shocked2:

LD

 

[Artificer]

"Et tu Brute?" (If my Shakespeare is not too rusty.)

Of course all the conspirators had to stab Julius, whether it was needed to kill him or not. This to share in both responsibility for and what they thought would be their reward.....

Gus

 

[tenngun]

Fifteen boni, but he had sixteen stab wounds. He was autopsied by a Greek physician who said only two of the wounds would have been fatal. Fifteen men could not have got around him and been able to have all stuck a blow together. Five or six at the most would have had to hit then moved off while the next wave came in, then the third. Some of the wounds seem to have been done just to cause pain, one to his eye several aimed at his groin.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So..., apparently..., they wanted to make a point?

At least they took a stab at it?
:rotf:


Wick is quite right. Knife encounters are fast, furious, and bloody confrontations to all involved. When I was a patrolman, half of the homicides, and more than half of the serious assaults were done with knives. Some of the homicides were single thrusts..., the dude was "done" before he hit the ground. Handguns were actually less lethal, at least based on results.

LD

 

[Artificer]

So..., apparently..., they wanted to make a point?

At least they took a stab at it?
:rotf:

It was vitally important they all made a point by taking a stab at Caesar. Otherwise, if done by only one or two of the conspirators, it would too easily be branded an assassination. By them all taking a stab at him, they were trying to make a point it was good for the Republic and not just good for one or a few conspirators. Of course it did not work out for them that way.....

Wick is quite right. Knife encounters are fast, furious, and bloody confrontations to all involved. When I was a patrolman, half of the homicides, and more than half of the serious assaults were done with knives. Some of the homicides were single thrusts..., the dude was "done" before he hit the ground. Handguns were actually less lethal, at least based on results.

LD

While speaking of Rome, well trained Roman Soldiers were taught to make a single thrust upward under the sternum and about 2 inches into the chest, with the width of the Gladius Sword blade parallel to the ground. (That way if they missed under the sternum, it would go between ribs.) This was the most certain blow to kill and drop the enemy, while not fatiguing the Roman Soldiers too much. That way they could fight more effectively and longer and against more opponents. Wild hacking and cleaving with a sword would tire one out too quickly, even though they kept moving fresh soldiers to the front of the formation as the battle raged.

That technique would have worked well with most Bowie Knives at times, IF one fighter struck before the other could draw his blade or if the first fighter could somehow deflect his opponent's hand/arm that carried the blade. (Shields were no longer in use by the time of the Bowie Knife, for the most part. :wink: )

Gus

 

[Rifleman1776]

half of the homicides, and more than half of the serious assaults were done with knives.

See? That just proves we need a lot more restrictive gun laws. :hmm:

 

[satx78247]

In San Antonio about 1/3 of all homicides are from being struck with a blunt object like a hammer, shovel, stick, rock, piece of 2x4 or another similar object.

yours, satx

 

[Nativearizonan]

We'll undoubtedly be safe as soon as those in Washington restrict our access to all such blunt objects. Crayons and soft plastic spoons will be much harder to murder people with.

 

[Rifleman1776]

We'll undoubtedly be safe as soon as those in Washington restrict our access to all such blunt objects. Crayons and soft plastic spoons will be much harder to murder people with.

I took this thread ff . Sorry :redface: , sometimes I just can't help myself. :wink:

 

[satx78247]

VERY TRUE. - After all, those "DC bureaucrats" & brainless/SELF-important LIBs just know so much more about every subject than us "ordinary folks".
(Given even half a chance, they will make EVERY decision for us.)

yours, satx

 

[tenngun]

As a nurse I met a man who claimed to have once worked for an international espionage agency. He was unhappy with some part of his care and told me he could kill me with a paper clip.
When will we stop the madness even children can walk in to a store and buy a box of paper clips. A thousand deaths in a box!!!! :rotf:

 

[satx78247]

Very well understood.

PITY that the "MORON LEFT" just cannot seem to figure out that objects (regardless of what they are) are NOT dangerous but that they are only instruments used by a CRIMINAL to commit a violent criminal act.
(Fwiw, I once, about 3 decades ago, saw a corpse in the Baltimore County ME's office, who had been murdered with a mechanical pencil, that cost less than a dollar & another deceased who was murdered, by being beaten to death, with an ordinary floor-mop.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

And TO ALL:

I'm resurrecting this tread because about 2000 this evening (08JAN18) I was at a formal living history training class for docents at The Alamo Shrine.

The assistant curator "mysteriously disappeared" during the class & about 1/2 hour later returned in white cotton gloves and bearing the ORIGINAL Jim Bowie' knife, which he had removed from the Alamo's vault.
(YEP, we got to inspect the UGLY, CRUDE-looking "butcher's blade" knife, with plain swamp oak handle & iron cross-guard, which is the ONLY knife that COL Bowie is known to made himself.)

As I said earlier last year, I had seen the "Original Bowie's Knife" at the Bowie's Knife Exhibit at The Shrine BUT that viewing was from > 8 feet away, behind a velvet rope & inside a bullet-proof glass case.

This time, the PRICELESS knife was within 18" of my face & he showed me BOTH sides for at least 90 seconds each.
(The curator held it out to each of us docents to allow us to inspect both sides at close range.)

The knife IS crude-looking but at the same time is one of the few actual artifacts that we KNOW was made & wielded by COL Bowie (until he gave it to a close family friend circa 1832.)

Fwiw, the knife has NO visible markings at all & is believed by most historians to have been reforged from a large file.

NOTE: The ORIGINAL Jim Bowie knife is now the property of The Alamo Shrine's artifact collection & the current plan is to place it on public display at The Long Barracks, once a suitable & secure case can be constructed & installed there.
(The "best guess" for its display is sometime late this year or possibly in 2019.)

yours, satx

 

[Loyalist Dave]

:bow:


LD

 

[satx78247]

And to ALL,

A "piece of G2", the Director of Member Services also said, once the "carnival sideshow" that is across Alamo Street is removed, that the buildings that were once on the West Wall of the Alamo Fortress will be reconstructed & will be used to display the Phil Collins Collection.
(Her guess on when the project will be completed is 3-5 years.)

In another decade, I suspect that The Shrine will look very much as the battlefield appeared on 24FEB1836. = Historical reconstruction is NOT a fast project & we Texicans want this project done & CORRECTLY.
(NO, we aren't going to tear the roof off of the chapel.)

Personally, I'm still DISGUSTED with the "carnival sideshow" BEING across the street from The Shrine & am looking forward to all that RUBBISH/noise/foolishness being GONE forever.
(YES, Alamo Stret will be rerouted away from The Shrine, too.)

NOTE: Every time that the maintenance & preservation team fixes something, new things are revealed/learned about the Chapel.= For example, recently a small "stone medallion" from the Catholic Mission era was found, when a piece of stucco fell off the wall.= The "medallion" is about "dinner-plate" size & is inscribed in Latin, "All Hail Mother Mary, Queen of Angels".

A PERSONAL COMMENT: I'm "a bit of a fanatic" about The Shrine & would like to see the Mission-era peach orchard replanted, that was once about 300 yards east of The Shrine. = The more "modern things" that are removed from the area, the happier that "we fanatics" will be.

yours, satx

 

[Artificer]

If they won't allow photo's of the original Bowie that you mentioned they have in the vault and plans to put it on display, is there a possibility they would allow someone to carefully measure it and make a good mechanical or drafting drawing of it?


Gus

 

[satx78247]

Go check your mailbox, please.

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

This knife is considered to be one of the first Bowie knives. No claim is made that it is the first as that cannot be proven. Nor can it be proven for any other knife in existence. http://www.historicarkansas.org/collections/knife-bowie-no-1-guardless-bowie-type-1

 

[satx78247]

Pardon me for pointing out that the Bowie-type knife, that your source pictures, is NOT the blade that I'm talking about.

Further there is period mention of the ONLY knife that COL Bowie was known to have made himself.
(I suspect that the Colonel found out the same thing that I discovered, when I tried making my own fighting knife in the 1960s: Making a QUALITY blade/guard/handle from scratch is DIFFICULT unless you are very talented with metal working. ====> When I finished "my effort", it was pitched out in the trash, as I didn't want anyone tio see the MESS that I had made. - I thereafter had my custom fighting knife made by Ralph Bone.)

When & if "Artificer" gets the photo of the "First Bowie's knife", I hope that he will post it to the forum.

yours, tex

 

[satx78247]

And to ALL,

It is my position that "the brother's Bowie" did NOT invent a knife that nobody had ever made anything that similar to before but that what the brothers made or designed were historically important.

For that reason, (like many people who are interested in artifacts that were of that period) I refer to the blades that are called (as Rezin Bowie did) "Bowie's Knives", i.e., the blades actually made or designed (and "contracted out" for manufacture) by Rezin or Jim Bowie.

yours, satx