The FIRST Bowie Knife??

[Bo T]

I am glade that you are making distinctions. How shall we refer to the knife used at the Sandbar? Bowies Sandbar knife?? I personally consider this to be Bowies first knife of historical significance?

 

[satx78247]

Evidently, at least 2 things are true about the knife that COL Bowie used in the Sandbar Duel:
1. The crude/ugly Bowie's knife that is now in the Alamo collection was made by Bowie BEFORE the knife used in the Sandbar Fight was procured.
and
2. COL Bowie purchased the Sandbar Fight blade from some merchant, rather than making it. - That same purchased blade is LIKELY one of two blades that he used in the notorious Icehouse Duel at Midnight.
The second blade was Bowie's "Little Friend", which was given to Jim Bowie by "a favorite girl cousin", (who was likely the then 15YO Nellie Faye Nugent,) for Christmas in either 1827 or 1828.
(Period documents indicate that Bowie was, "- - - - never known to be without it.")

ADDENDA: It is my guess that COL Bowie was given/bought/owned other knives, of various kinds, during his 44 years of life.

yours, satx

 

[BillinOregon]

SATX, thanks for these wonderful updates. Great to hear there will be progress made in restoring the atmosphere around the Alamo. Cannot wait to see the photo!

 

[Rifleman1776]

And to ALL,

It is my position that "the brother's Bowie" did NOT invent a knife that nobody had ever made anything that similar to before but that what the brothers made or designed were historically important.

For that reason, (like many people who are interested in artifacts that were of that period) I refer to the blades that are called (as Rezin Bowie did) "Bowie's Knives", i.e., the blades actually made or designed (and "contracted out" for manufacture) by Rezin or Jim Bowie.

yours, satx

One story about the "first Bowie" was in a small book I found at our local library many years ago. It was written in the language of a basically uneducated man who was a friend and neighbor of the Bowie family. He (his claim) says the first Bowie was made on order for Rezin Bowie by James Black. The knife was made after Rezin had a serious injury while sticking a hog they were butchering. His hand slid down the handle to the blade and he got cut very badly. He later went to Black and ordered a new knife with a cross guard to prevent this sort of thing from happening again. Great story, and after reading it I cannot find any reason why the writer would fabricate it. He was not a writer and to preserve that story in words had to be a labor of love for him. A few years later I looked for that little book again but the library had discarded it. I later checked with the curator at Historic Arkansas Museum and learned they did not have a copy of that book but very much would like to be able to study that claimed part of the history of the Bowie knife. The book was there, I read it and found it plausible. Ye'all can take it or leave it.

 

[satx78247]

Me TOO.
(This is a GREAT time to be an Alamo Shrine docent, as we volunteers will get to see the restoration, in person, as the restoration/construction progresses.)

just my OPINION, satx

 

[satx78247]

Do you, perchance, happen to remember either the title or the author's name of that book??
(IF you do remember either/both, I'll see if the US military library system has a copy OR if The Library of Congress possibly has it.)

YEP, I want to read it.

Note: I, by accident,"started an argument" last week at The Chapel & was "reported to the Curator's Office" by a visitor because I had the temerity to suggest that other people in history had made various sorts of fighting knives & long before COL Bowie was born.
(For some PROUD Texicans, ANYTHING that you say that deviates from "The Myth" in any respect/small detail will anger them.)

yours, satx

 

[Kansas Jake]

The Roman short sword isn't too much bigger than some modern "bowie knives" I've seen.

 

[satx78247]

VERY TRUE.

Rezin and/or John Bowie had several known VERY LARGE Bowie's Knives made on "private commission" for "gentlemen of means" in AR, LA & MS.

One such VERY LARGE "Bowie's Knife" has a blade 20.5" long, 3.7" wide at the mid-point & about 1/2" thick at the spine.
The handle & sheath is of a hard/shiny black material BUT I'm unable to identify what the material is.
Both the handle & sheath are "heavily decorated" with coin silver & engraving.

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

Do you, perchance, happen to remember either the title or the author's name of that book??

Sadly, no. If I did I would be doing searches for it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rezin and/or John Bowie had several known VERY LARGE Bowie's Knives made on "private commission" for "gentlemen of means" in AR, LA & MS.

The shop where this was (supposedly) done still exists at Old Washington State Park in Arkansas. Classes on forging knives are given there. I've been in the shop. Had an aura of something very historically important.
Some 'documentation' I have never seen is anything to support the claim by some that James Black never existed. Another part of the Bowie legend that may never be verified.

 

[satx78247]

Actually, SOME of the "private commissions" were actually done in New Orleans, south TX, possibly in CT & perhaps in the UK.

PITY that you cannot remember anything about the book that would allow us to locate a copy.

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

PITY that you cannot remember anything about the book that would allow us to locate a copy.

Yes.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

Fwiw, I was told this morning about 1000 hours by an assistant curator that the The Alamo's CEO has been PROMISED that the "First Bowie's Knife" will be ON DISPLAY (In a suitably secure case) in The Long Barracks by Christmas 2018.
(I was also told that the Chief Ranger is "nervous", as the Bowie's Knife is NOT & CANNOT be insured as it is "one of one".)

yours, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

To All,

Fwiw, I was told this morning about 1000 hours by an assistant curator that the The Alamo's CEO has been PROMISED that the "First Bowie's Knife" will be ON DISPLAY (In a suitably secure case) in The Long Barracks by Christmas 2018.
(I was also told that the Chief Ranger is "nervous", as the Bowie's Knife is NOT & CANNOT be insured as it is "one of one".)

yours, satx

That is a silly concern. Most items on display in museums world wide are "one of one". A good example is the Mona Lisa.
Since that Bowie was found at the Alamo, I'm skeptical that was the first. The last would be more logical.

 

[satx78247]

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

The "First Bowie's Knife" (The ONLY knife that COL Bowie ever made himself) was NOT found at The Alamo. - It was purchased from the family of the man that COL Bowie gave it to, long before the COL came to Texas.

"The Iron Mistress", which was COL Bowie's famous (or notorious, depending on your opinion of COL Bowie & his exploits) fighting knife is in the collection of HAM in Arkansas.
(COL Bowie did NOT take his own knife to TX. Instead, he took his brother Rezin's knife to TX. - That knife now belongs to the family of a Mexican LT, who took it back to Mexico as "war booty" after The Siege. = In 1986, Mr Charles Oliver traveled to Mexico to try to buy Rezin Bowie's knife & was unsuccessful.)

yours, satx

 

[necchi]

I'm sure there's a huge amount of anxiety about creating a safe display for that one-of-one knife. Locks only keep honest people honest.
How can anyone display the gold at Fort Knox and not invite some fruitcake from making an attempt!?
I mean it is a memorial/shrine but it still takes money for reasonable protection and a 24/7 armed guard.

That knife now belongs to the family of a Mexican LT, who took it back to Mexico as "war booty"

Is there a link info about/or to photo's or any way to "see" that knife? Has that family made public anything worth sharing?

 

[satx78247]

The Mexican family seems to have NO interest in exhibiting or even discussing the Rezin Bowie knife & is "publicity shy".

Mr. Oliver simply told a reporter from THE FORT WORTH STAR-TELEGRAM in DEC 1985 that he had wasted his time traveling to Mexico & trying to buy Rezin Bowie's knife, as it is their "family treasure".
All that he accomplished was being allowed, by a elderly lady of the family, to see/hold the knife.
(I was told, by one of his close friends, that Mr. Oliver offered 100,000.oo USD in cash for the knife & was told that no offer would be accepted and/or even welcomed. = The famous knife, that COL Bowie used at The Alamo's fall, is evidently/simply not for sale.)

Note: The ONLY differences in COL Bowie's own knife & the Rezin Bowie knife is that each bother's knife has their personal cattle brand carved into the handle. = "JB" or "RB" (With the "R" reversed & connected to the "B").

yours, satx

 

[necchi]

So COL Bowie`s knife at the shrine is close to or similar to the Resin Bowie knife?
(forgive my ignorance)
Ya know(?) The return of the Resin Bowie knife as a National Treasure should be included in all the dealing the politico's have going on!!
No Knife,, No NAFTA!!

 

[satx78247]

Rather than me re-typing all of this information, may I suggest that you go reread the FIRST post in this thread (#1628701) & continue with reading posts 1628817, 1628819, 1629216, 1662224 & 1552733 as it will (I think) clear up your confusion.

My most sincere apologies to you/anyone else who I have "confused". = It was my intent to "illuminate this subject".
It is quite possible that I simply failed in that regard.

yours,satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

The Mexican family seems to have NO interest in exhibiting or even discussing the Rezin Bowie knife & is "publicity shy".

As time goes on, without the knife being exhibited and made available for study, it's provenance could vanish. That would make it, essentially, worthless. In fact, now, how does one prove it what is claimed?