ive heard ya guys talkin in here and i was wonderin why ur guys are shooting deerin the neck and head enstead of behind the shoulder.I thought you were always supposed to shoot deer behind the shoulder.So wheres the best kill zone?Or does it matter?
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The kill zone??
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KyFlintlock
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A double lung shot is hard to beat, a big target and usually a decent bloodtrail.
Rat
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I don't believe in the neck-shot, some people do. If done right the deer will drop on the spot. If the shot is off just a bit a wound and a long lingering death will result.
Same with the head shot...deer can go many miles with it's face/nose blown off.
On the heart-lung shot, the shot can be way off and still kill the deer soon enough to recover it.
Rat
Same with the head shot...deer can go many miles with it's face/nose blown off.
On the heart-lung shot, the shot can be way off and still kill the deer soon enough to recover it.
Rat
I shoot all my deer in the heart lung area for same reasons. Big target and lethal. I never had to track deer very far with this shot. My last deer this year was knocked off her feet. One I hit the shoulder bone and he didnt travel far to tell the tale. 80 grains of 3fg goex behind 490 of lead fury has supplied me with venison aplenty :applause:. Even the biggest buck is still a thin skinned animal
Guest
There is one quote from John Whooters that I believe in. He(or maybe Fadala) attempted to shoot a Labrador Caribou in the lungs, but hit him in the neck, killing the animal instantly, and there decided that "all neck shooters are lyers".
: He luckily hit the spine, which is a very small target in a large neck. The same goes for deer, but on a slightly smaller scale.
: The lungs are the place to put the ball or bullet & will kill better than most neck or head hits. Most neck and head hits result in wounded, lost game & long tracking with animals that eventually stop leaving a blood trail or leave none to start with. A lung shot animal will not be lost PERIOD. There is no such thing as losing a double-lung shot animal. That is imossible, unless someone cannot walk or track 50 yards.
Daryl
: He luckily hit the spine, which is a very small target in a large neck. The same goes for deer, but on a slightly smaller scale.
: The lungs are the place to put the ball or bullet & will kill better than most neck or head hits. Most neck and head hits result in wounded, lost game & long tracking with animals that eventually stop leaving a blood trail or leave none to start with. A lung shot animal will not be lost PERIOD. There is no such thing as losing a double-lung shot animal. That is imossible, unless someone cannot walk or track 50 yards.
Daryl
My experience with whitetails is that whether you use a high power rifle, bow or black powder a double lung shot with an exit wound is that you will find your game within 35 yards with a good bit of blood spray on the exit side out to ten feet usually. If only one lung is taken out, then double the yardage. Know your target. Hank
iainofulva
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My friend nailed a decent sized doe this year. He hit her at about 50 yeards with his .50 cal and she dropped on the spot. During the field autopsy, it was discovered the ball had clipped her aorta and she was most likely dead before she hit the ground.
Damn fine tasting deer, too.
BTW Sachem Longhunter, "80 grains of 3fg goex behind 490 of lead fury has supplied me with venison aplenty." is the best quote I've heard in a loooong time!
Jon
I once had a shot at a deer and the only thing I saw was the rear end of it. It wasn't running away, but was standing still behind a large tree. I shot hoping to break the hip or pierce both hip bones. Well....after I shot the chase was on...and it went on all day long, but I finally got the deer. I did manage to break one hip and the deer had a hard time running and it was constantly falling and crashing, but it sure did put on the miles!
The "kill zone" is anywhere within a 100 yard radius of me when I have a loaded gun and an empty freezer. :winking:
Take a look at the above critter-gram. The "kill zone" for a whitetail is the heart/lung area. About 14"l x 10"h x 10"w. This area is the most "target rich" spot for blood vessels and vital organs. It is also near the center of gravity and is the area of least movement should a deer move unexpectedy.
You could kill a deer stone dead in 20 seconds by severing the pyloric artery along the belly, but it is not a shot any conscientious hunter would try for. Brain shots are always fatal, but a deer's head moves suddenly and unexpectedly. :nono: It takes a deer a long time to die from a shattered jaw.
As you can see in the neck there are lots of spots that are nothing but muscle and esophagus. I'm not a big fan of neck shots for that reason (and the deer can wip it sideways faster than you can blink).
Take a look at the above critter-gram. The "kill zone" for a whitetail is the heart/lung area. About 14"l x 10"h x 10"w. This area is the most "target rich" spot for blood vessels and vital organs. It is also near the center of gravity and is the area of least movement should a deer move unexpectedy.
You could kill a deer stone dead in 20 seconds by severing the pyloric artery along the belly, but it is not a shot any conscientious hunter would try for. Brain shots are always fatal, but a deer's head moves suddenly and unexpectedly. :nono: It takes a deer a long time to die from a shattered jaw.
As you can see in the neck there are lots of spots that are nothing but muscle and esophagus. I'm not a big fan of neck shots for that reason (and the deer can wip it sideways faster than you can blink).
Ron LaClair
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I killed my first deer with a 30-30 in 1951 and I couldn't tell you how many I've killed with bow and gun since then.
Probably 98% of the time I shoot for the heart/lung area.
I certainly wouldn't shoot for the rear quarters with the intention of breaking the hips but I have shot deer and a moose going straight away and never had a bad result because of it. The RB from my .62 ML went full length through the moose.
As for head or neck shots, I've done that when the deer was close and the shot was assured to be successful. On two occasions that I can recall I made head shots on deer from 25yd's and under with my .54 flinter which can drive tacks from that distant. Those shots were taken because it was the best shot offered.
Two years ago on the opening day of gun season, I shot a 6pt and an 8pt an hour apart. They both layed within 20yd's of my tree stand where they were dropped with neck shots. If I had shot them throught the lights (lungs) they probably would have ran to the adjoining posted land 50 yd's away.
In my opinion a head or neck shot is ok if there's good reason for it and if you are sure you can place your ball or bullet where it needs to go. A steady rest with no weaving around so an offhand hold is not the best. An inch or two off line could result in a wounded animal. Bottom line it's up to you to make the right decision.
Probably 98% of the time I shoot for the heart/lung area.
I certainly wouldn't shoot for the rear quarters with the intention of breaking the hips but I have shot deer and a moose going straight away and never had a bad result because of it. The RB from my .62 ML went full length through the moose.
As for head or neck shots, I've done that when the deer was close and the shot was assured to be successful. On two occasions that I can recall I made head shots on deer from 25yd's and under with my .54 flinter which can drive tacks from that distant. Those shots were taken because it was the best shot offered.
Two years ago on the opening day of gun season, I shot a 6pt and an 8pt an hour apart. They both layed within 20yd's of my tree stand where they were dropped with neck shots. If I had shot them throught the lights (lungs) they probably would have ran to the adjoining posted land 50 yd's away.
In my opinion a head or neck shot is ok if there's good reason for it and if you are sure you can place your ball or bullet where it needs to go. A steady rest with no weaving around so an offhand hold is not the best. An inch or two off line could result in a wounded animal. Bottom line it's up to you to make the right decision.
IMO, I think head / neck shots are very 'iffy' with muzzleloaders...PRB's are great and that's what I use, but they are not a .30-06/165grn SP at 2700fps delivering a 2000+ ft/lbs of shock power.
FWIW, if I'm up above a deer in a treestand where I'm shooting down at a good angle (ie: 45*) I put the ball down through a shoulder to break it on it's way down through and across the heart/lung area.
But if my shot is any kind of horizontal ground level shot, regardless if from the front, the side, angling towards, angling away, etc...I always set up for a direct heart shot itself.
Every deer I've shot directly in the heart has fallen within sight of me...if they haven't, then the heart has been missed...so my very first set-up question when I see a deer coming through is always: can I get to the heart?
If I can, I know the deer will go down without tracking...
:m2c:
Guest
I reserve my "head shots" fer:........
Bunnys
Grouse
Snakes
Matches
Sqwirrls
..... and, etc!! :thumbsup:
YMHS
rollingb
Bunnys
Grouse
Snakes
Matches
Sqwirrls
..... and, etc!! :thumbsup:
YMHS
rollingb
Protrucker
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:imo:I agree with most of the other responses, but you should remember to be flexible. The perfect shot is not always presented. You should take the best, most responsible shot possible.
I've only once intentionally shot a deer in the neck & that was when I was using a .30-06 & the doe stopped to look at me. I was already standing with the gun to my shoulder & the only shot presented was the front of the neck. The gun went off & she went into a heap. The hole in the back of the neck was big onough to put both fists into. Round balls won't give this kind of expansion, but I still wouldn't rule out this shot if I was sure of placing it where it needed to go.
:results:
I've only once intentionally shot a deer in the neck & that was when I was using a .30-06 & the doe stopped to look at me. I was already standing with the gun to my shoulder & the only shot presented was the front of the neck. The gun went off & she went into a heap. The hole in the back of the neck was big onough to put both fists into. Round balls won't give this kind of expansion, but I still wouldn't rule out this shot if I was sure of placing it where it needed to go.
:results:
Guest
I took such a shot with a .45 custom rifle. I shot a facing deer in the neck at about 40yds. distance. IT was a good mule deer doe, 90lbs. packaged in the freezer- maybe 200lbs. live weight. The .454" ball, propelled by 90gr. 2F, chrono'd at 2,040fps. struck the neck just to the right of the spine. The ball exited the back of the neck. The deer dropped at the shot and lay kicking, getting stronger every passing second. I told my wife to shoot it as I reloaded, and she merely handed me her .36 rifle, loaded with a 128gr. maxiball(custom 18" twist). I then shot the deer at the base of the neck/front of the shoulder, into the spine, killing it instantly. Her light slug penetrated 23" of meat and bone, expanding to .63" - beautiful performance from the proper twist Bauska barrel.
: The damage from the relativley high velocity .454" round ball was negledgable, pretty much just a 1/2" hole, from front to back with a slit for an exit hole. Had I not had the opportunity for the fast second shot from my wife's rifle, I might have lost the deer. It was only a matter of seconds before it would have gained it's feet, I am certain. I'll never shoot another Deer or any other ungulate in the neck. It's too chancy :imo: - just look at the diagram posted in this thread. There's too much area for missing the bone or corotids.
: Since that time, many years ago, I've always made lung shots and never lost an animal, nor have I ever had a long tracking job - except once, but that's a moose story.
: The damage from the relativley high velocity .454" round ball was negledgable, pretty much just a 1/2" hole, from front to back with a slit for an exit hole. Had I not had the opportunity for the fast second shot from my wife's rifle, I might have lost the deer. It was only a matter of seconds before it would have gained it's feet, I am certain. I'll never shoot another Deer or any other ungulate in the neck. It's too chancy :imo: - just look at the diagram posted in this thread. There's too much area for missing the bone or corotids.
: Since that time, many years ago, I've always made lung shots and never lost an animal, nor have I ever had a long tracking job - except once, but that's a moose story.
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