The Wif's gun

[jimmy82]

So there I was reading The Gunsmith of Grenville County and finally realized what could be done to help make my wifes pedersoli PA longrifle look a little more accurate. It will still be a generalized recreation but I feel after this modification that it will fit the description (and the shooter) a little better.

So here is what I'm talking about. Anybody that looks at the pedersoli PA can tell you right off the bat that the buttstock isn't shapped right, the curve of the nose on the comb is WAY to long, almost half the length of the comb. But check out these lines.

What I figure is that a person can cut along one of these and reshape the comb and the face of the butt plate to match. I believe this will give the buttstock a more traditional and functional shape. Has anybody tried this with a pedersoli PA longrifle? What tools would be best to take the wood off, start with a rasp or plane maybe? Or try to saw off the excess then shape it?

On the other hand, anybody with experience with this rifle think that this would be a bad idea?

P.S. Thinking about trimming the rear trigger a little too, it seems long compared to what I've seen on originals. This would be purely aesthetic though.

 

[Ian Pratt]

You are right, that would make it look a whole lot better. The problem you'd have is that you'd need to re shape and re inlet the buttplate to make it work like you're thinking. The comb extensions on butt plates are usually hollow, if you cut the top down at the angle you have shown you'd get into the cavity. Even if it was solid you'd end up with a bizarre taper to the comb by the time you re-shaped it.
I'm not saying it can't be done, If you did it right I agree with you it would make the gun look much nicer and likely be more comfortable to shoot. Just probably more work than you figured. If you decide to do it we can give you some more ideas.
Shortening that rear trigger might make it look nicer, It will be hardened and you'll need to grind it carefully and keep it cool, make sure no heat gets to your contact point and takes the temper out of it.

 

[jimmy82]

Actually i was already thinking about the buttplate. At the least it would have to be bent while cold. I want to try heating it up to make the job a little easier, quicker and a nicer end result that doesn't require a lot of cleanup with files and sanding (if that is possible). The rails will need extensive work to become parallel with the comb again and the face will have to be reshaped to match the new profile of the comb as well.

 

[J.D.]

Actually i was already thinking about the buttplate. At the least it would have to be bent while cold. I want to try heating it up to make the job a little easier, quicker and a nicer end result that doesn't require a lot of cleanup with files and sanding (if that is possible).

Bending the return of this buttpiece may present a problem. A vast majority of these so called brass castings are in reality bronze, and bronze is far more brittle than brass. You may very well break the butt piece, no matter if it is bent cold or hot.

Brass does not bend well hot, BTW. Annealing the BP by heating to a black heat and quenching in water, several times during the bending process, may help prevent breakage, but I wouldn't count on it.

Also, monkeying with the comb line will probably alter the fit of the gun. It may make the gun hard to shoot by changing the angle of your wife's head to the the sights, making it hard to align the sights.

That general comb design isn't all that different from some originals, so I wouldn't mess with it.

If you want the gun to look better, I suggest removing 1/16" or more of wood from the surface of the stock, in all dimensions, and properly rounding the forearm from the lock pannel to the muzzle. These production guns are too fat, and too slab sided to replicate the lines of an original.

Refining and thinning the shape of the lock panel will help a LOT in improving the looks of this gun.

Drilling a small hole through the barrel channel into the ramrod hole, an inch or so from the breech, to measure the diameter of the RR hole will help to determine the thickness of the web below the RR hole to the bottom, outside of the stock. Insert a toothpick or drill bit into the hole to gauge the RR hole dia.

Measure from the bottom of the barrel channel to the bottom of the outside of the stock and subtract those dimensions to determine how much wood is left on the underside of the forearm.

The underside of the forearm can be thinned and more easily blended into the thinned and reshaped lock panel.

Maybe Brooks, Roy, LRB, Cooner, or one of the other accomplished builders will offer more, and probably better, advice on this one.

 

[bioprof]

While you're at it, I would thin out the lock panels, especially along the back.

 

[jimmy82]

Hmm... :hmm: Was having her do those "pick a point, close eyes and then point at target and open eyes" drills and she was coming up low. So I'm thinking that this would be a good thing to do for the fit.

The lines are kinda hard to see on here but i drew three, one to the crest of the heel where it straightens out, one to the face, and one in to the approximate middle of the face. I am thinking that this middle line would be best. If I only reshape to the face then there would be a funny angle between the plate and the comb. If I go all the way to the crest of the heel then there will be extreme modification of the buttplate. But this middle line would only require slight modification, and hopefullly going slowly and thoughtfully I can bend the plate enough to get a decent looking angle from the plate to the comb. I am confident that if i couldn't get them perfectly square that I could get them at least close enough so that you wouldn't notice unless you where holding the gun in your own hands.

The properties of the metal worry me a little though. I've only played with a little steel so far. I wonder if bending the plate under the heel would be easier, instead of dealing with all the metal in the heel rails and face. But this would be rather intrusive on the butt and probably wouldn't look that good so I really don't want to mess with that part.

But it is interesting that you say that brass doesn't like to bend when hot. One of our welders was using brass to wrap a handle of a knife he had made and was heating it while bending and the bends looked nice and clean.

 

[FPDoc]

Steel will "always" bend, unless hardened/not tempered. Brass/Bronze is different. It goes very quickly from solid to liquid (like solder or..brazing rod..) when heated enough, not solid-soft-liquid like steel (the guy you were watching was most probably annealing as he went, not heating to soften like you would with iron or steel). Brittleness depends on the alloy and ML castings are often Bronze and more brittle. Like copper it work hardens with bending/pounding then cracks unless annealed (heat to "below melting" and cool either quench or just let it cool, doesn't matter except takes time to "just cool") You can try that a couple of times to be sure if you want. Some folks use rawhide hammer to tap the brass to fit new inletting, or on a sandbag or lead block etc. to bend. You won't get much warning when it is about to crack, it just gets stiffer then oops... "just torque it till it snaps...then back off 1/2 a turn" :rotf: Not that I've ever done that!!

 

[jimmy82]

Very interesting. Thank you for the input. I'll have to ask some of the welder guys some questions (hopefully some tutored hands on too) before I go on leave, probably will pick up some sheet stock also to play around with before I get elbow deep in something. :v

 

[tg]

It has been quite a while since I have had one of those in my hands, would it be possible to work the stock down from the buttplate foreward leaving it in place and blending in a straighter comb? I recall fiddling around with an old CVA or Navy Arms in a similar fashion at one time but cannot recall how close in profile this was to the gun pictured.

 

[jimmy82]

Hmm... It would be interesting to try. The comb would probably be one continuous curve instead of straight to prevent an odd angle at the junction between the face and the comb. The comb might lose a little length too, but that wouldn't hurt either in my eyes, the wrist does look a little stubby. But the pics in my book are all straight except for one that has a very subtle curve.

Due to the extent the comb would have to be cut down i don't think I am going to get away without at least a little modification on the plate. The more I look at it and analyze pics and talk about it on here the more I want to do it. The obvious problem comes up though... What do I do if I break it? I am half tempted to buy a couple that look like they might fit the new angle a little better and try those right off the bat before going in and even trying to bend the original. If they don't work out it's parts for future projects

This just hit me, I don't know why I didn't think about it earlier. Trim the comb, re-inlet the face and rails to match the new comb and then gently tap/bend and anneal (repeat as needed) the back of the plate. I almost hit on this earlier but i was thinking about working from the bottom up. With this idea i would be working from the top down. The metal is thinner so it would be easier to bend in the first place with less hits/bends, thus less hardening and chances for breakage. What'ya think?

 

[FPDoc]

If it breaks you support it on sand etc. and braze it back (technically weld since you'd be using the same filler as base metal) but you'd use "brazing rod (brazing is kind of like soldering.. you use a different filler (brass) than the base metal you are joining (usually steel). Clear as mud :grin: Basically if you break it either fix it or get a new one.. once that doesn't worry you much you're well on your way. :grin: