Throwing hawks or knives in combat?

[Tom A Hawk]

Cooking the ribs afterward sounds very good! However, in a battle, I think I would prefer to hold onto my hawk and use it as the club instead of my rifle. If all fails I still have my knife which I am adept at using (thanks to the USMC) and if that fails I would resort to using my rifle as a club after firing it. I just would hope that I am as adept at using the hawk as I am at using a knife.

I am in agreement that the weapon should stay in the hand. The object of the challenge is to provide objective evidence for or against throwing it. If it makes a significant penetrating, wound and the thrower is skilled enough to effectively manage the precise distance involved in making an edge-on strike, as it rotates end over end through the air, then perhaps he might take a chance. If however, it makes a minor wound or bounces off with little effect, then perhaps an experienced frontier warrior would be knowledgeable of this and avoid losing his weapon. TV shows and movies have done much to create fantasy perceptions.

And, this is why your mother said never to play with sharp things...

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/woman-dodges-flying-ax-in-viral-video

 

[yonderin]

Practices that may have no real use on the contemporary battlefield may be something that armies have and will continue to carry on. I suppose that it is ensuring that the individual has a basic knowledge of the skill before using it in combat, if he chooses to.

I remember doing workup training for deployment where we fixed bayonets before commencing an attack. Then, and I still do think.....seriously?

 

[Nyckname]

Practices that may have no real use on the contemporary battlefield may be something that armies have and will continue to carry on. I suppose that it is ensuring that the individual has a basic knowledge of the skill before using it in combat, if he chooses to.

I remember doing workup training for deployment where we fixed bayonets before commencing an attack. Then, and I still do think.....seriously?

https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archi...inated-bayonet-training-1.137356#.XK59hRgpA0M

 

[yonderin]

Maybe I'm missing something but, what I'm getting from that articles is that the bayonet is being used as a fighting knife, not a fixture on the end of your rifle.

 

[Nyckname]

Maybe I'm missing something but, what I'm getting from that articles is that the bayonet is being used as a fighting knife, not a fixture on the end of your rifle.

Yes. The last bayonet charge was sixty-five years ago, but they kept teaching it in training until a decade ago.

 

[Stony Broke]

Getting back to the practice of throwing hawks and such at an enemy, I doubt even if one were to hit the enemy as one intended, I doubt it could penetrate enough to be deadly unless it hit someone on the head. You are dealing with a sorta wide blade that wouldn't penetrate well....granted it could make a nice cut though...especially if it didn't have to go through heavy clothing.
I hunt lots of feral pigs and have tried a hatchet to whack off a head before, and believe me it takes a lot of force and lots of whacks, even if you cut through the skin first with a knife.
I personally think that doing anything fatal, or even making any kind of a serious wound would be very rare.
I have competed with knives and hawks at rendezvous a lot, and what's you normal penetration on some pine or whatever the target back is made of?...maybe 1/2 inch ?

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Getting back to the practice of throwing hawks and such at an enemy, I doubt even if one were to hit the enemy as one intended, I doubt it could penetrate enough to be deadly unless it hit someone on the head. You are dealing with a sorta wide blade that wouldn't penetrate well....granted it could make a nice cut though...especially if it didn't have to go through heavy clothing.
I hunt lots of feral pigs and have tried a hatchet to whack off a head before, and believe me it takes a lot of force and lots of whacks, even if you cut through the skin first with a knife.
I personally think that doing anything fatal, or even making any kind of a serious wound would be very rare.
I have competed with knives and hawks at rendezvous a lot, and what's you normal penetration on some pine or whatever the target back is made of?...maybe 1/2 inch ?

My thoughts also. Somebody needs to do a test.

 

[tenngun]

My thoughts also. Somebody needs to do a test.

I have never fought any one like this. I had a knife pulled on me by an ***** in a jeepie in the Philippines that I was able to disarm because he had to look away to drive.
However I’m thinking that you don’t have to make a killing wound, as long as you can startle an enemy or make him change just for a second from offense to defense. Just the second you need to give a disabling wound or retreat to a more defensible position.
The Franks axes were made to make an enemy shield unwieldy.

 

[Dr5x]

MY SON MAKES THROWING KNIVES WHICH SEEM TO PERFORM EXCELLENTLY. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT HOW DAMAGING THEY WOULD BE TO BE HIT BY ONE, BUT THEY HAVE CAUSED ALL SORTS OF DAMAGE TO HIS WOOD TARGET..
I DO THINK THEY WOULD CATCH YOU ATTENTION
.

THIS IS APPARENTLY A CONSIDERABLE SPORT ACTIVITY THAT I HAD NO IDEA IT EXISTED

I THOUGHT ALL THROWN KNIVES HAD TO TURN END OVER END ON THEIR WAY TO THE TARGET WHICH WOYLD REQUIRE YOUR BEING SPECIFIC DISTANCES AWAY. I HAVE JUST LEARNED THERE IS ANOTHER WAY TO THROW A KNIFE WHERE THAT END OVER END ACTION DOES not happen and that therefore you can throw from ant distance.
It's all a mystery to me.

Dutch Schoultz

I have never fought any one like this. I had a knife pulled on me by an ***** in a jeepie in the Philippines that I was able to disarm because he had to look away to drive.
However I’m thinking that you don’t have to make a killing wound, as long as you can startle an enemy or make him change just for a second from offense to defense. Just the second you need to give a disabling wound or retreat to a more defensible position.
The Franks axes were made to make an enemy shield unwieldy.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I have refrained from commenting to this point, but can think of a couple of instances for throwing a knife or hawk. I don't think it would be a normal practice. One instance would be to prevent a person from fleeing, i.e. and warn others etc. Another might be an instance of desperation when being attack from a short distance by a much larger foe or to prevent someone from reloading a firearm at a short distance, but long enough to prevent a direct attack.

I don't like absolutes. In other words, I won't say I would never throw a knife or a hawk in defense. I would also never say I would always use throwing as a tactic. Situations may dictate different tactics.

 

[atllaw]

I'm a product of the battle wisdom of the 60's. Therefore I think, as if anyone cares what I think, that:
The handgun is only an instrument that will help you acquire a rifle;
The knife, and by association the tomahawk, is a weapon of last resort.
As such, why would you through it away?
I could tell you how my old friend (now deceased) LTC Ray Nutter won his DSC which exemplifies the knife as a last ditch weapon, but I won't...

 

[Sport45]

I could tell you how my old friend (now deceased) LTC Ray Nutter won his DSC which exemplifies the knife as a last ditch weapon, but I won't...

https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/4637

I was glad to find his story has been told. And it is a very good example of why you would want to hang onto your blade to the end. Ray Nutter was a true warrior.

 

[David_B]

What a man Ray Nutter was! That's why I EDC two knives and have a machete on the passenger seat. But I do feel that my "weapon of last resort" would be something more like a chair or a big rock.

 

[Artificer]

Yes. The last bayonet charge was sixty-five years ago, but they kept teaching it in training until a decade ago.

Well, sorry, but that is just not accurate.

U.S. Marines used the Bayonet Charge in Iraq, or when moving into a major combat areas like Fallujah or sometimes had to resort to the bayonet when ammo ran low. Though it turned out in the following example they didn't actually do any hand to hand fighting with the bayonet, it was still a huge psychological beneficial factor. Plus, you know a bayonet charge REALLY works when it so terrorizes your enemy that you don't need to actually use them.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-famous-bayonet-charge-of-modern-conflict-2012-10

OH, and NEVER try to tell the Highlanders the Bayonet Charge is not excellent, if nothing more than a last resort.
"
"21st Century Bayonet Charges
In the last ten years, British troops have resorted to the bayonet to break impasses in combat both in Iraq and Afghanistan. In May, 2004, a detachment from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders surprised a force of 100 insurgents near Al Amara, Iraq with a bayonet charge. British casualties were light, but nearly 28 guerrillas were killed. And as recently as October of 2011, a British Army lance corporal named Sean Jones led a squad of soldiers from the Prince of Wales Royal Regiment in a bayonet charge against Taliban fighters in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. After being ambushed and pinned down by militants, the 25-year-old ordered his squad to advance into a hail of machine gun fire. “We had to react quickly,” Jones remarked. “I shouted ‘follow me’ and we went for it.” He was awarded the Military Cross for his actions. Even in an age of GPS-guided bombs, unmanned drones and network-centric warfare, 300-year-old technology — like the simple bayonet — can still carry the day."
https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/01/17/stickin-it-to-em-the-last-of-the-great-bayonet-charges/

Now, for those who have never been in combat or did not run into an occasion when such tactics were necessary, I realize charging a machine gun nest with or without bayonets sounds like insanity. It IS INSANITY, UNLESS you are pinned down and there is no other help or support AND that machine gun nest is going to wound/kill you all if you DON'T charge it. Though that never actually happened to me in combat, I can attest to the fact that sometimes to often something that seems ABSOLUTELY CRAZY, is what gets you out of a very bad situation.

Gus

 

[WRustyLane]

They (the USMC) still taught the bayonet charge when I was in boot camp at Paris Island, SC. That was back in 1969 just after graduation from high school. They not only taught the bayonet charge but how to kill with the bayonet used as a knife. But then that was what the K-Bar was used for. I still have my K-Bar and I still know how to use it! Like you, Gus, we never had to use the bayonet charge in combat, thank God!

 

[Rich]

None of this is necessary. I have the ultimate hand to hand weapon. Just look your enemy in the eye and say "don't make me call your wife".