Tipi help........

[Matt B]

I need some suggestions with anchoring our tipi down. We had it staked on the outside with rocks tied into the fabric, then to the stake. I also had the rope staked down in the center......it wasn't enough for a micro burst that hit the house. It all tipped over, stakes stayed in place and got a small rip on the bottom.

Any other thoughts or suggestions on what to do? The poles all stayed tied together, so I need some help.......

 

[Holley]

First....you need more pegs for the bottom or increase the number of loops and ties at the bottom. For windy weather the old tipis were about 15" or less between pegs. Then...you make sure the cover is as close to the ground as you can make it....even touching the ground as the old tipis did. Do NOT rely on the liner for keeping out the wind...because what happened to you is that the wind got up under the cover and brew it over. It gets lifted up and over. This pitching of the tipi cover high...4 to 12 Inches off the ground started with the Laubins and thier fitted liner. The old tipis NEVER had fitted liners. Look at these old photos to give you an idea.[url] http://www.tipis.org/historic_photos_of_tipis.htm[/url]

The other thing the old tipi owners did was put an anchor rope or two tied to the lift pole and secured about 15 to 20 feet behind the tipi to keep it from blowing over. See first photo in the row to see a Crow lodge that has this.[url] http://www.tipis.org/covers.htm[/url]
The anchor peg inside only holds the poles in place and not the cover. Helps keep it from "walking" in high winds. Four pole tipis have a tendency to do this.

I have lost two tipis to tornados and can attest to the use of the ropes as historically correct and a big safety measure besides more pegs for the bottom of the cover.

 

[Andy Mueller]

I agree, if you did stake the center down, then the stake might not have been deep enough for the soil, that goes along with the outside stakes as well. Also, you can bury the poles a little(4in) if you're worried, but that's only for the four main poles. Other things you can try is the figure eight around the north and south poles. This locks the poles together and its more likely to "skip" then it is to fall. when you're done wrapping 4 times, end at the north pole and walk through the poles to the south, go outside and around and return to the north to make the figure 8. then pull em real tight and its not going anywhere!
Scouter

 

[Holley]

Problem is...you still have not stopped the wind from getting underneath and picking the tipi up. You have just secured the tri or quad poles better as stated in the Laubin book. Some areas that are used for camps are a bit too rocky for much digging and the old indians were known to burry the butts of most the poles 10 or more inches because of the heavy winds, not just the main support poles. How much experience do you have in a tipi...just a question.?? :hmm:

 

[Homesteader]

I've been reading this thread with interest because I'll soon be pitching, (for the first time), a 16' Blackfoot style lodge for my winter camp. Really looking forward to it.

Most of my info has come from Laubin's book, what I've gleaned on the 'net, and a booklet I bought on erecting the Blackfoot tipi, a four-pole.

So, questions: by pitching low, you don't mean so low that the entire foot is on the ground, do you? (Blackfoot lodges have stake loops, so I don't believe this'd even be possible.) Will the low configuration still draw air enough to give it the chimney effect? And what do you do about rot from so much contact with the ground?

I've got non-fitted canvas I'll be using for the liner.

This lodge will be up constantly for around four or five months, rain, shine, heat, or freeze. No deck, this time around anyway, and I'll be in it anywhere from 3 to 7 days per week depending on work. Just me and my dog.

Any further tips or info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Holley]

How to set up a Blackfoot lodge by Brian Cannavaro is the best and most correct directions I know for this lodge. If you do not have it...let me know. The Laubins have it wrong in their book.

Yes, in the old days the cover kissed the ground all around. Even old logs, boxes, other materials were put on the cover to stop as many drafts as possible. [url] http://www.tipis.org/historic_photos_of_tipis.htm[/url]

The tipi was never design for the hot humid wet climates of the Southeast :redface: or any area with that type of weather. We have tried to get it to adapt to our needs in these areas of the country. If your tipi is made from natural canvas and untreated..it will mildew no matter what :barf: in a few weeks or less. If your tipi is treated with the chemicals to ward off mildew and water...you are better off. If your tipi is made of the new acrylic or synthetic materials...you are much better off. Then you definitly need to get it a bit off the ground as these materials do not breath well.

The liner as we know it today was mostly invented by the Laubins based on the works of Ben Hunt, Stanley Campbell(Vestal), and Seton of the boy scouts...and someone else I have forgoten right off the moment. Tipi liners were not fitted single or two or three piece but just blankets, robes, pieces of cloth, and leather hanging down from the poles or a rope tied to a pole. These items were then pushed back by the bedding and other materials against the pole area. Liners were usually only used in the winter and not too much in the hotter times. Sometimes a small section or blanket was hung behind the bed to keep drafts off the sleeper.

If you use a full liner and it sounds like you will...it will mildew being on the ground. So be prepared for that unless your liner has synthetic or acrylic underturn. And if you put a flooring material on top of that to keep the run off water or critters out...you will be sealed in nicely.

A Good canvas tipi will draw air with a small fire inside even with the cover to the ground. Canvas has a natural air flow to it. It is the smoke flaps and door that controll the air flow.

So right now...good luck..if you have other questions...you can get me at.[url] http://www.tipis.org[/url]/

 

[Andy Mueller]

Ouch, apparently not enough experience. Sorry for the advise- didn't know I was flying over a shooting range.
:surrender:

 

[whiskey]

I lived in my tepee for a whole winter in the mountains of Montana and here are some of my observations. I set my lodge up so the bottom was on the ground. Snow eventually piled up on it and sealed it good from drafts. I also had a regular liner in it. I use the front door to allow air flow to the fire. The tepee drafted smoke beautifully most of the time. There is not much you can do about smoke when the wind I flowing directly into the smoke hole, even flap movement won't keep it from smoking.
When spring came, I let the canvas dry before packing up and never had a problem with rot.
I have worked for historic sites that keep lodges up all summer with no apparent rot to the bottoms. All these locations are in the west where rot, mildew and rust art not big problems.

 

[Homesteader]

I do love experimenting with different shelter. Over the years I've lived in a Baker tent, a canvas covered "wagon" I built, a sort of wig-wam (didn't like that at all), a Bender, cabin tents, and a tree house. Short term in much less. This year I plan to try a 16' Blackfoot tipi. Eventually I'd like to make a Yurt. It's all for fun, right?

However, I've learned that here in the South East the only time that sort of experimentation is any fun at all is in the "winter". (And it ain't much of one.) During the three summer seasons it's something air conditioned, or maybe a Hennessey hammock, or I'm just staying home.

During the few winter months it can range from ice-storm freezing to shirt-off warm, and from drought to rain. Just never know. It's put every shelter I've used so far to the test.

I've got Dan C.'s book, and I'll be putting up the lodge sometime this month. Looking forward to it. I'll let you know how it does over the winter if y'all are interested.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Kanu]

Great info. here come some questions :hmm:

How is a 14' tipi for a 2 week hunt in the fall and early winter ? Temps could go down to 10 F .

Is a 14' ok for a fire , easier to heat than a 16 ft maybe ? Mostly just me in it but could have my girlfriend on the weekends.

Is Sunforger canvas worth the extra $ compared to water repellent treated canvas ?

 

[wildeagle]

Just my two cents. My 16 footer and 20 inches of snow around it, about 35 degrees: my buddy an Me in tee shirts were very comfortable. Go with the sun forager, after a few fires and some smoke it will become more and more water resistant. Remember just my two cents :grin:

 

[Holley]

All this information is dependant on where you live in the US....if you have high humidity and rain...definitly get the Sunforger with Marine treatment or water resistant coating. If you NEVER intend to get in a more humid/rainy area...you can use regular canvas. But with todays travel and how long you want to set it up...protect yourself and the investment and get the best you can :thumbsup: it is worth it in the long run. Fires and smoke will HELP in some water resistance...but not as much as treated canvas. :hatsoff:

Oh!....a 14' is great to heat and transport. Used one for 15 years. Also depends on how many people are in it.

 

[Kanu]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm in BC and it is damp for extended periods of time so it seems the extra $ is worth it.

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what the Sunforger treatment is ?

 

[Holley]

Sunforger is the name given to the chemical process that is put on the canvas. Another name was Vivatex. The canvas is soaked in this solution. Far better that applying it after market such as with Bhear or Canvac.