Took my 54 to the range...

[dledinger]

Took my Lyman Trade Rifle (54) to the range today. My goal was to find a good hunting load with Grafs 3F powder. I just bought a few pounds of it. Based on my previous results with Pyrodex RS in this rifle, I didn't think it would be very hard. The Pyrodex shot nice tight groups anywhere from 60-100 grains.

Today I started working up from 60 grains, 5 shot groups. 60 and 70 did ok, about 1 1/2" at 50 yards. But 80 and up opened up a lot. 3", then 4", and probably 6" for 100 grains.

I'm shooting roundballs with .018 pillow ticking lubed with olive oil. I tried a few groups with prelubed ticking also, but they seemed to shoot the same.

Not sure where I should go from here. Is there anything else I try to tighten up the groups with stiffer charges, or might it be that my rifle wont ever like a healthy dose of 3F? I've read that 3F sometimes calls for a tighter patch, but not sure I want that in a hunting load. Its pretty snug as is.

On a side note....I did pick up a pair of 1858 Remingtons over the Holidays and they sure shot wonderfully today! Worse come to worse, I have several pounds of Grafs 3F to burn in them!

 

[George T.]

Graff says that their powder is made by Schutzen I reciently bought their powder from Graff. In my Lyman GPR Their 3F shot very poorly useing my regular set up of .490 ball and .018 patches. I got their 2F to shoot pretty well so far by lowering the charge I used! In my lyman barrel anyway it seems to shoot their 2 F much better!

Geo. T.

 

[dledinger]

Hmm. That sounds much like my experience. I hate to even order 2f not knowing what it will do. Sure wish I could buy powder locally!

I guess I'll play some more and if all else fails I'll stick with the Pyro RS. I dont like paying the local prices for it either!

It did seem to me also that the Grafs left some crunchy hard fouling right above where the ball sat. And also that I got the red specs at the muzzle that people sometimes associate with a good load right at 70 grains.

 

[jamesthomas]

I think 1 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards is excellent :thumbsup: and 70 grns. of 3fff with a .54 is more than enough for most game animals. Have you tried it at 75 or 100 yrds and see what it does? if it drops off quickly you could try some 2ff, some rifles like 2ff better than 3fff when you get over .50 caliber.

 

[dledinger]

I did shoot a bit at 100, and with 70 grains it was shooting about 3". The load and rifle are probably capable of much better, but it was a bitter miserable day and the shooter was not. It was also shooting quite low at 100, zeroed at 50 had me shooting about 8" low at the further distance. I have it in my head that I'm going to work with the factory fixed sights...8" low put me on the bottom edge of the paper. I didnt have a spotting scope with me, so it was somewhat difficult waiting for "cease fires" so I could take a peak at the target. Not ready to start filing the front sight yet! I ended up doing a bunch of off hand shooting at 50 yards just to gain more experience with the rifle. Still had a blast.

 

[54mountain]

My son has a Lyman trade rifle and it seems to like around that 60gr 3f load also. The trade rifle has a faster twist barrel than my GPR and it doesn't seem to like the heavy charges that my GPR likes.

 

[George T.]

Your right it's the same twist 1 in 48 as the T/C is. My GPR is 1 in 60 so it may not be the same. Geo. T.

 

[mooman76]

When you go back to 100 try cranking up your powder a little more like another 10-20 gr and it may shoot right on.

 

[William O.]

My trade rifle, also in .54 always got tighter groups using 2f Goex and I couldn't get it to shoot with good accuracy using 3f. It does great using 85 grains of 2f, a .530 RB and .018 pillow ticking patches lubed with beeswax and olive+mineral oil. Any Lyman barrel I ever had need a good deal of bore polishing and it wasn't until I had about 100 shots through it and had used a lot of JB's bore paste that I really started getting 1 inch groups at 75 yards. If yours is fairly new then I'd look into polishing the bore or just shooting it some more, but I would also try some 2f powder and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Did you try differant sized balls? I went from a .530 to a .535, droped from a .018 to a .015 patch and cut my groups in half... Just a thought.

I get 3" groups at 100 yards with a .535 RB, a .015 prelubed patch, and 90 grains of Pyrpdex RS.

I know every gun is different but that load does very well in both my TC Renegade with the 32" 1/70 twist RB Barel and my Lyman GPH...

 

[newtewsmoke]

and my Lyman GPH...

great plains hunter?? fast twist?

 

[matt denison]

5 shot groups. 60 and 70 did ok, about 1 1/2" at 50 yards

That is pretty good. Maybe about as good as you can expect with open sights on an Italian barrel. (not knocking Italian barrels, just saying.)

 

[Little Wattsy]

and my Lyman GPH...

great plains hunter?? fast twist?

Nope, my bad.. has the slower RB "twist"

 

[necchi]

Uhm,,?
The Great Plains Rifle has the slow twist,
The Great Plains Hunter has the fast twist.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Uhm,,?
The Great Plains Rifle has the slow twist,
The Great Plains Hunter has the fast twist.

And I quote myself "my bad" please substitute the 'H' with an 'R'.
:surrender:

 

[dledinger]

Wow, what a bunch of great replies. I'm definitely not dissappointed in what 70 grains would do as far as accuracy, more so surprised that the rifle seemed to digest any load of Pyro RS so readily, but was so much pickier with the 3f. I would *like* to be able to load it a bit hotter, but it's certainly not neccessary where I will be hunting.

More time at the range, I suppose, will help me settle on a load. I think I am going to try some 2f Goex next and see what that does for me. I could always go back to Pyro if I cant get it where I want....but I prefer to shoot real black if I can.

For those that asked, I've not tried 535 balls or other patch combos yet. I'm not casting so far...but plan to soon! Hard not to lean that way when a box of balls costs as much as a mold.

 

[Shifty]

I have a 54 cal with a 1-48" twist barrel it does a 3"t4" group a 100yds with 80grns FFg Goex ,pilow tick patch,mink oil lube,anything above that charge it starts opening up pretty much, this is pretty close to what you are getting with the FFFg, I am happy with the performance of mine ,it sure will put a deer down.

 

[William O.]

It may be that Pyrodex RS (Rifle/Shotgun) has a larger granulation similar to 2f Goex while the Grafs powder that you tried is 3f and has a faster burn rate, thus your larger groups. I would suggest that you work up a load starting with 60 grains of 2f or Pyrodex RS, a .530 RB and a .015-.018 lubed patch. I use 100% cotton pillow ticking that I buy at the local fabric store lubed with a mix of beeswax and olive/mineral oil. The ticking measures .018 thickness and the shot patches look good enough to use again. Anyway, use the same ball and patch combination for every shot and shoot at the same spot on the target. Shoot three times and note where you are hitting, then increase your charge by 5 grains and shoot three more times. At some point your groups should get nice and tightm then start to open up. When they do, back off by 5 grains and you've found the best powder charge for your rifle. I like to swab the bore between shots with an alcohol dampened cleaning patch so I return the barrel to as near the same as when I started out. Also, if your rifle is new it may take some shooting for it to settle down and give you the best accuracy, so don't get discouraged. There are several ways of polishing the bore quicker than just putting 100 shots through it but none are as fun in my humble opinion. Hope this helps get you where you want to be at.

 

[George T.]

If you wanted to try bumping your charge a little Ox-Yoke makes .020 patches or you could try .335 balls. Geo. T.

 

[nymtber]

Just curious, but if you had good luck with Pyrodex RS (2f substitute) why did you decide to order 3f blackpowder? Either way, if 70gr of 3f gives you good accuracy, why not start playing with patches/ball diameter and see if you can squeeze more accuracy