Trade, Barn, FDC, or Fowler

[Daryl Crawford]

Well Gents, I'm a noob, a novice, a bare initiate. I have spent my life around firearms and archery tackle (longbows) but am not an expert in black powder. I've hunted deer here in Pennsylvania for years with a .50 flintlock (a T/C and an Investarm Hawken) but have wanted to get more into one gun hunting with a smoothbore. I planned to get a fowler when I retired from the Army a few years back but life got in the way of that and money went elsewhere. Now I'm building up some funds but I'm not really sure which way to go with a smoothie.
I want something that shots a round ball well for deer, but also shot for squirrel and turkey. I don't know that fancy is a great idea because I expect this to be a working gun. My one gun for everything except perhaps waterfowl. I dream of a BP backpacking hunt for small game or deer.
Money is also always a consideration, with one in college and another starting in just over a year.
I've looked at the Pedersoli Trade Rifle. It could be a good option. I don't think a custom build is in my budget. Besides, my time in the Army taught me to get used to a weapon, not expect a weapon to fit me. I've looked at some used guns as well. I even thought to just post a wanted add on some sites and see what showed up in my budget and just try to run with it, but I fear my lack of experience might lead me to poor choices.
What advantages should I be considering between these different styles? I've been thinking 20 gauge, but maybe that is too limiting? I didn't know if I should look at flintlock shotguns or not. Should I be looking at longer barrel length than a trade rifle? Is a barn gun the simple style I need while offering the load options I'll need? I do like the easily detached barrel on my hawken, but fowlers I've seen didn't have that. Maybe I should not worry about that.
I'd appreciate guidance as I save towards this. I'm sitting on a couple hundred bucks now and working to build that up so i can break into a smoothie by late winter. I want to have plenty of time on the range in the spring/summer preparing for next season.
I appreciate any help/suggestions/guidance in advance.

 

[Cruzatte]

20 ga. is a good choice for all around smooth bore shooting. It certainly will fill your deer tag, and you can turn around, load it up with shot, and hunt squirrels to your heart's content.

Personally, my current favorite is the FDC style. I just love the looks of those things.

A similar style gun is the Caywood Wilson fusil. It looks like a Frankenstein gun; half French, and half N.W. trade gun. I have shot one of those for over twenty years. http://www.caywoodguns.com/wilson-trade-gun2.html

 

[Dave Marsh]

My personal choice is a 20 gauge NE Fowler. Mine shoots round balls and shot extremely well. I had it jug choked. Not sure what FDC is.

Dave

 

[Cruzatte]

My personal choice is a 20 gauge NE Fowler. Mine shoots round balls and shot extremely well. I had it jug choked. Not sure what FDC is.
Dave

FDC -->French Fusil de Chasse (hunting gun): A very popular civilian smooth bore gun originally manufactured for distribution to Canada and Acadia. First made in Tulle, France 1696-1745, and later copied by makers in St. Etienne, France until the British took over Canada.

 

[tenngun]

My FDC is my favorite gun. I did just build a smooth rifle following the lines of a Hines rifle, and it has pleased me very much.
The pedi is close to a NWG, it’s light and handles well. I’ve not owned one but handled the several times.
For the price it may be your best bet.
Loyalist arms makes some good smoothbore much cheaper, but they are on Indian wood and heavier, they need a bit of touch up.
A good FDC Kit is not too hard to put together.

 

[ThumperJones]

I'm fairly new to the smoothbore thing myself. I picked up a Fusil De Chasse built back in the 90s for cheap, and have shot it enough to form an opinion on it. It handles well, points well, and is nice and light to carry. And I like the long barrel and feel that 20 gauge is a great size for ball and shot. But the drop of the butt, and the angle of the buttplate make it a lively experience to shoot. If you ain't on your toes it will whack your cheek around pretty good. Especially loaded with 100gr of 2F under a .600 ball.

If I had my choice for a second smoothbore or to replace this one, I'd look hard at an English Fowler or a Carolina Type G gun.

All that being said, the FDC is a fine gun and I don't feel shorted using it for about anything you could ever want to do.

 

[Brokennock]

We are on the same level of thinking as far as looking for a one gun for everything goes. I like my Centermark Fusil des Chase very much. My early Virginia style smoothrifle gets more woods time mostly because I trust myself more with the gun having a rear sight.
If I were to trade both guns for just one it would be for a Type-G trade gun, also known as a Carolina gun.
I find 20 gauge to be about ideal, but would be quite happy with a 16 gauge as well. Smaller than 20 gauge would not be legal here for all I want to hunt here in CT. and larger than 16 gauge seems pointless unless hunting waterfowl.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Definitely recommend a 20-ga flint smoothie! Barrel length would be dependent if a premium barrel, as they are thinner at the muzzle, where one 42” or so should be ~7-pounds. If a heavier walled barrel, I’d go for ~38” length.

Jug choking will improve shot loads, but also look up the ‘SkyChief’ shot loading method.

I had a mint Caywood Wilson, but they are pricey nowadays, commanding up to $2K for used. Historically they are not correct, but the build as executed is otherwise flawless.

I’d say you could get a serviceable 20-ga for $800+ from Jackie Brown and many option$1K plus from Tip Curtis, if going new.

 

[jbwilliams3]

All good advice above. The Pedersoli will be a good gun, but for that price or maybe just a little more you could probably find a simple fowling piece that more closely resembles a historic gun, especially if you look around for used. I sold my Type G trade gun for around $1K earlier this year because I needed the money elsewhere. That was a great gun though in a 28 gauge. I think the 20 and 16 gauge are both very versatile. I have 14 gauge that I love. Sooo light and well balanced even at 48 inch barrel. The only downside to the larger calibers is the amount of lead per shot (I cast my roundballs so it doesn't bother me).

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Thanks for the info. Just got back a bit ago from taking my wife and one daughter "glow golfing." They were tired of me talking about what I was learning from this site. So 20 gauge seems to be a recommendation, longer barreled guns seem to be favored so fowlers are moved up on the list.
Thanks for the thoughts and keep them coming. I'm feeling like a sponge here!

 

[Rat]

Oh boy, let me throw a monkey-wrench in the works. I found that the Pedersoli Brown Bess "carbine" works well for me. In PA a 20guage is "probably" "best". However, love my Bess. Look to the left there she is with some dead birds.

Where I hunt there are some critters that will hunt you, so I went with something with a larger bore, not that a 20/62" wouldn't put the hurt on Grizz. I do love the fowlers and the trade guns. I also started out with it, as my first flintlock, thinking one gun for everything, but after passing up a nice bear at 110 yards, I did acquire a flintlock rifle. Now she mostly hunts grouse and turkey. Sometimes I take it on a deer hunt, but have never "connected" with one.

Carbine version of the Bess is a nice handling, reasonably light gun. Doesn't have quite the grace of a fowler, but neither is it clumsy or clunky. Nothing like a full length musket. But with it's .75" bore, she does have attitude.

Just a thought.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Well, Daryl, you have asked one of the tough questions to be asked on the forum. The main reason is that there are really no wrong answers or for that matter no really right answers. The final answer has to be the answer that fits Daryl's needs and fit to his shooting preferences. Most here will recommend getting a 20 gauge as components are easiest to get and find locally. Other gauges work equally fine for hunting small game, turkeys, and larger game such as deer, elk and bear. Check game laws in your area to see what the restrictions are with respect taking of game. Some states have a minimum gauge of 20 for turkeys. The beauty of a muzzle loading fowler is that you have a choice from shot to shot on the load from amount of powder, size of shot and some configurations to control the pattern.

For someone new to the hobby, I think recommending a 20 gauge is pretty much the top choice. Using the firearm as a fowler, a long barreled, light weight well balanced gun is key to ultimate enjoyment. Where you hunt may have a slight bearing on barrel length. In theory, a short barrel in brushy conditions is a good idea. In practice those few inches difference in length really don't matter much. If you have hunted a lot with a short barreled gun the shorter length may have an appeal. Most of the smoothbores mentioned have long barrels. The one that fits and points naturally should be the top choice. I like the looks of a North Carolina trade gun or a New England fowler.

Any of the choices put forth are good and will serve the OP well. Daryl, get a copy of Grinslade's book, "Flintlock Fowlers". That will get you a look at many styles of fowlers available and its cheaper than a fowler.

As I said earlier, fit is key to success. If there is a traditional muzzle loading gun club near you or a rendezvous with smoothbore matches, go and see what you like.

Whole treatises can be written on the pros and cons of such a selection that has been proposed.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I want something that shots a round ball well for deer, but also shot for squirrel and turkey. .... I expect this to be a working gun. My one gun for everything except perhaps waterfowl. I dream of a BP backpacking hunt for small game or deer.
Money is also always a consideration, with one in college and another starting in just over a year.
I've looked at the Pedersoli Trade Rifle. It could be a good option. I don't think a custom build is in my budget. ...I'd appreciate guidance as I save towards this. I'm sitting on a couple hundred bucks now and working to build that up so i can break into a smoothie by late winter. I want to have plenty of time on the range in the spring/summer preparing for next season......

Well I think that pretty much means Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket Kit. https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...3/product_name/FK3370+INDIAN+TRADE+MUSKET+KIT

They are well built and reliable, and light. Don't let the 30" short barrel fool you..., they are handy in thick woods. Quite capable for taking squirrel up to moose. Much less recoil than what you'll get from a Bess, and lighter too. The only caveat is you will want to upgrade the ramrod to a straight grained rod.

You didn't mention "historic accuracy" so the fact that these are not very close copies to originals is not an issue. In the above case you save some money by finishing the stock. True you could save like $350 by getting an India origin trade gun but they are heavier, and quirkier, so not as good as a beginning, all around gun as the above.

So Unless you find a good historic copy used fowler for the same price, the above really is what you're looking for. (imho) For example there is a 1200 dollar .58 trade gun for sale now, on Track of the Wolf. No telling what will be available when you've saved that much.

LD

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Has anyone had experience with Jedediah Starr Trading Company? They have a trade rifle kit for about 600+155 for a lower grade curly maple stock. A part of me would rather not get a kit and just try to find a used fowler in about a $700-800 price range. I doubt my skills with a kit at this point. Maybe I shouldn't, perhaps I'm just being impatient.
Track of the Wolf has a kit that they claim is easy. With some options (breech plug and sights installed) it is about $990 for the kit. I'll assume there are quality differences.
As always, I appreciate the feedback, suggestions and guidance.

 

[Cruzatte]

Take a look at this one
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/489/1/AAS-189

 

[Daryl Crawford]

I saw that but worried it would be small for turkey. Am I wrong on that assumption?

 

[Cruzatte]

24 ga.is small? That's approximately 58 caliber. As long as it's legal in your state, why not?

 

[Britsmoothy]

I saw that but worried it would be small for turkey. Am I wrong on that assumption?

I have owned .58 smoothbores and taken pheasants and rabbits to thirty yards easy with shot so turkey can't be to bad....

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Thanks gents, I've got a few hours of thinking and then may pull the trigger. I've been really leaning toward 20 gauge fowler but that 24 gauge from TOTW could fit the bill.

 

[Stony Broke]

I have a Wilson trade gun with a shorter barrel for sale on this forum. It would make a nice overall hunting gun, although some folks don't like the shorter barrels. I once shot a buck with it using a prb and had several inches of lung hanging out of the off side. I double lunged it, and it took just a few steps before collapsing. The only thing I shot using shot out of it was clay pigeons, but it worked as expected on them.