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Traditional M/L Guns from Afghanistan

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Fantastic barrel' Wow ,'the Manton lock is plain Company style ,re sizes , I don't think their locks differ from Ordnance their where Carbine locks same style but shorter scale .Twigg & Nock where big names who made arms in quantity Because the E .I .Company paid up . The Fine Clent ell had fine guns but where notably poor payers (Joe Manton went bankrupt with these un paid book depts that and legal wranglings ).That lock might be John Manton who had a good head for business . I have David Harding's 4 volumes on the " Small arms of the United East India Company ' but you have the date it might render the size of Manton's Order but it isn't too relevant . Nice barrel that's what makes it . I knocked one up with an old barrel but Bakers Series lock' Ug Lee ' but an example if you really really want a pic Ile see if my daughter will take one ime not good at E gajets When in Cabool (old spelling but there just Wogs ' Oh 'Wogs 'is "Westernized Oriental Gentlemen ". viz 'Wogs' They may be' Tribesmen' Herat had an old mud fort said to be built by Alexander the Great forces most of Afghanistan was sun burnt rocks & rubbish .Was pleased to cross into Persia There in a neat Tent city we had to stop three days to ensure we didn't have Cholera , Suited us overlanders a coach that had taken a load of Japanese to Madras was coming back to UK empty the drivers said "The only sights we want to see are the White cliffs of Dover " he like us had to stay and a dozen or so of use availed of a ride .I was still frail from Blackwater fever up in Kathmandu for two months Suited me just fine one slept the other drove and we stopped just for a Karzy and food went through Tehra ran. Istanbul. & Vienna at night arrive Dover grey dawn Customs bod says "Anything to declare ?" No body said a Dicky bird . And that was up till we reach London( Ide hitched out to Karachi from Milan to Bombay on 16 pounds Ide had a rough trip in Turkey but Persia had cheap buses in 1966 so took the southern route into Baluchistan & a Steam Pilgrim ship Karachi to Bombay Deck passage. No border bod wanted onward or what funds we had Just play the' dirt encrusted Sahib .'Those were the days .
'Rambling Rudyard
Wow, great stories!
I've not heard W O Gs in use for more than 50 years...last time was from Bob Ruark. He styled it as a Worthy Oriental Gentleman. Definitely a piece of spoken history now I suppose. The locals back then may have initially received it as a compliment but soon tired of it. Times have flown by - nowadays I sometimes feel my own bones fossilizing.
 
REF: Post #78

Hi Rudyard. Great story. You've lived a life few of us could have imagined. LOL

I have 4 Jazails in my collection. All 4 have genuine EIC regulation locks. But from 4 different makers. Still, they are all built similar.

Congratulations for owning the 4-volumn set of books from Harding's. Those sets are quite rare today and usually bring a very good price at auctions - in any condition. Let me know if the day comes and you want to sell/trade for the set. LOL

Rick
David gave me my set I was his NZ Agent if you find one look up vol two' Patterns' and the' Lawrences pattern 'story.
Rudyard
 
Tha
Dear Rick I do seem to have had a good run in life Started in a well Bombed Low rent district of Sheffield 1944 a sickly child due to the industrial smog but was good at geography & history I was quite eager to find some warmer climate So by 20 year old I set off on a pushbike to South Africa ,Well Stanford's General map of Africa showed roads that are just' Pistes' tracks in the sand plus Mauritania Closed its border to Morrocco . So I itch up Casablanca trying the post for ships No go so hitch to Alger get a visa for Mali & hitch down to Adrar after being invited to a wedding ? festivity at small Oasis great people. After a week in Adrar two trucks form convoy & I ride the top of one to Gao in Mali 7 days across the Sahara first two in Sandstorms boil by day & freeze by night .from Gao Timbuctoo is only 140 miles or so But I hitched all day one car came by (there is no paved road just rutted' Pistes' . but got sick so return to Gao & ride a overloaded cattle truck two pain full days to Mopti also on the Niger river .By then sicker than any sea side Donkey . But survived .& twas then an ambling trail of cramped Mille Kilos Red dusty roads through Ivory Coast Liberia, Sierra Leone , The White mans grave !.Back threw getting hassled by Liberian security ordered to leave but picked up a job for a timber company anyway ..Cross Ivory Coast get into great 'palaver' one night nr Grand Bassam the useual I MUST be a spy (Not fitting the normal Ex pat Missionary or Firestone rep. normal people shouted " Johnny Walker " some nit stirred the village up. armed troops roll up search bag ect I had a flint lock & a horn of gunpower (Naturally I was a Muzzle loader after all )and Ide made one Bedouin very happy by giving him two flints for his Snaphance Kabyle earlier ) but no James Bond stuff it looked tense a sort of " Now what they do" But I made a joke gave them an' out ' & That broke up that diffoolgalty .But next day I cross the river in a dug out to Half assini fine row of smartly dressed Ghanaian Police on the jetty their wide short s so crisp their legs moved but the shorts didnt bit like some plastic toy cows Woolworths used to sell. Border hassle . I end in in house arrest at a school with some PCV & Cuso & VSO teachers so was OK .ere they take me to Accra who reasoned I Cant be a Carpenter I know to much of the world ! Yup . So ime to be deported to Nigeria at 7 pounds fare .They wont pay ,Not on your Nelly I sure as hell wont pay , So we settle on a Mammy wagon to Togo :Land for ten shillings .plus a box of cigs to bribe the border bods the High commission gave me .Then the Maliaria strook but I didnt know what it was so hitch to Nigeria via Dahomey .Where at the PCV Hostel their Doctor said it was 104 degrees Malaria no fun when you have to kip in Victoria beach to save the now dwindleing funds That was an education it was a small concrete hovel where the locals went to gamble one bloke was Coffing his mate explained it was yellow fever .Hmmm . Anyway a cop raids the gamblers they explode out the door Ime laying there on a piece of plastic all ide got by then too hot for my long since ditched sleeping bag I just waited till they looked inside but they didn't .Anyway I hitch up to Benin thence the Asaba Oneita ferry cross the now huge Niger river to Enugu Met a fellow Yorkshire man good company thence travel through the Cameroons via Victoria then Duala war in Congo ( nothing much changed !) so took a old Dakata to Fernando Poo .then Spanish ( Francos Spain ) hopeing for a Portugues ship to Angola via Soa Tome but wasn't to be so worked putting a tin roof over oil drum stores for a whole 100 peseta's a day! near the Equator . Talk about cat on a hot tin roof ! Oh well it gave me the price of quarters & tucker Till the Supply ship" Ciudad de Toledo " gave me passage to Cadiz via Lagos ,Monrovia , & the Canaries hitch across Spain to Irun thence hitch up to Boulogne I think from memory . My poo at the time small & covered in green stuff ( You don't wish to know this !)Had Just enough for the ferry to Dover kip in a golf links Cold after the months in the tropics & no blanket
But no mail so I hitch up home with a whole 7 / 6 pence left.. Thats a very condensed version of course . But big phew &' Finished with engines ' So you see after that the run to Ceylon following year was a comparative' doddle' & I never stopped wandering . Stewart Island (NZ)To Dawson City in the Yukon down through to Puerta Cortez in Honduras .All over Australia . worked later Zululand 1970 then down to Cape town & hitched up to Nairobi . The world was my oyster , its any ones who wants it to be. but times now, have about stuffed that caper ..Anyway big cheese ? maybe but it made 79 but cant see me going away much except up or down wards ? .Regards Rudyard
Thankyou Cyten .I knew you would relate to my tales your my kind of wanderer . my Greek? Migulet lock 3' spring length cracked its on a Shinoni I made 30 years ago I never finished it as Its the decorating that takes the time .Tobjohn is sending you your wood I sent it with his earlier box parceled & Addressed These locks seen almost identical I had welded the crack but its now weaker though I was able to take it apart & put it together . the M springs even the fine engraving are so close (I have two others are I think Persian . I will send you the number & sizes of the Rosettes ? don't need many for my original Turkish Target Rifle (Has a steel B plate with a Square hole in it ??? Some sort of clamp test jig ? its sights go up to what must be 300 yards or so. Very unusual I I did once have a most curious Rifle Damascus Brl but round tail flat flint lock with a provision to fire by flint OR Matchlock ??? to save Flints ?? rounded stock form with long range sight much like a P 51 or Enfield ladder & it had a stout lower jaw that suggested it might be altered to percussion ..Ime Thinking Persian going on the stock form never seen another but being a Donkey brain I sold it while still a teen ager . I do have an old photo small but my daughter might be able to blow it up cal was about 577 so thinking date wise 1850s+ = ? I do seem to gone on about travels. I didn't do what anyone else could do had they a mind too. The first step is the hard one I found , But in effect I became "my own National Geographic "as one PCV put it . Now at 79 Ime about stuffed .. All good No especial regrets but would like to have visited Timbuktu I got so close But I've been round the World & like you done more miles than Marco Polo .Could have ever have envisaged .
Regards Rudyard
 
Wow, great stories!
I've not heard W O Gs in use for more than 50 years...last time was from Bob Ruark. He styled it as a Worthy Oriental Gentleman. Definitely a piece of spoken history now I suppose. The locals back then may have initially received it as a compliment but soon tired of it. Times have flown by - nowadays I sometimes feel my own bones fossilizing.
Robet Ruark ' Use enough Gun fame ?'
Regards Rudyard
 
Wow! What a tale, Rudyard! Indiana Jones can't hold a candle to you! I'm glad you made it through it all.
Dear Eric Thank you for your kind appreciation There's a lot I left out The odd 1911 in my face on Casablanka docks or the Marshals riot gun one time in Whitefish Montana as I rode a Burlington Northern from Spokane to get to the NLMRA Western up on the Flathead . or the Bulls revolver in Selkirk yards with a gentleman working for Con rail .But this is sort of normal if your in such places and the last two where nothing like the" Freeze succer!" of films they where more" Excuse me do you have any ID .Or what are you doing ? .The Casablanca Bulls where just doing what they do .Me & an American lad where looking for a boxcar to kip in since the Youth hostel cost 2 Dirums and persons of our sort cant be spending so rashly (I lived in Morrocco two months on an expenditure of 10 pounds & a pound of that was for a nice Berber powder horn which I still have .).The 1911 one just came out of the dark & shouts "Arrete!" French for Stop ! I then explained our purpose in my Spanish & French mix they collared my mate but they then show us a dray ( Semi trailer deck)to kip under but we thought it a bit exposed so ended up in a Derelict building nr the Gare du Nord . Thusly saved us the 2 Dirums about 50 c US at the time .. When nothings coming in then you needs curb what goes out .
.The Camione that crossed to Sahara from Adrar cost 15 Dinah from memory Two days of sandstorm then these big numbers on the road Apparently to guide the French Atomic bomb tests .Hmmmmm. It took 7 days to reach Gao in Mali. Ime . not glowing so should be OK. One amusing day we stop by a sign in French & Arabic it read' Tropic du Cancer '. one old bugger travelling with our two Camione Convoy reads this & turns to me in alarm as says "L Malad ?" I assured him he wont get Cancer . There are lots of such bits I came by like camping next to miles a landmines in Northern Algeria still left from the wars of liberation from the French . My lift told me how they made bombs from improvised stuff .My lift dropped me of at the Pere Blaunch in I think AinSurfa It was dark .They figured Ide be OK but the Priest told me to bugger off (In French) as he' Wasn't A youth Hostel' . hence I walk south till I see this Wadd and follow its dry steam up to the wire fence . Which come morning I find was the 30 od mile of Minefields ! Thank You Mr Pere Blanch ! lots of bumph like that with officialdom the People where generally fine on the West Cost tropics the Sun goes down quick no lingering twilight & one dusk Ide been plied with Palm Wine pleasant when fresh but if left gets a heady brew . So Ime walking on, In Ivory Coast I think it was . I could look it up in my diary's I kept Ime passing two urchins who had caught some small creature . So I bought it from them walked along then pretended to take a leak Let go the creature and walked on like I still had it its now about dark Ime sat slightly tippsy talking to my self when through the failing light three Native women with bowls on their heads come towards me . They pick out my form & run back up the road despite my assurance's . But the village' President' found me a Rondaval to camp .They where generally good that way . We are talking Lion country . Lions never so much bothered me ,I fear Mosquito's the most . However I seem to be going on hardly Indiana Jones But I did have an Algerian Straw hat .. I never made a Boush way or did so much for muzzleloading as you did . One little bit perhaps of interest & Ime including it in my book was my first night on the road South from Tangier it was growing dark my lift left me next to a road mans hovel he looked after the repair crews machinery .The old Boy beckons me so I go and except his kind invite ,He made oily pancakes and as Ide by then fairly good Spanish (Ide worked on Gilbralter to top up funds Xmas 1965)We conversed about the world at large & how he though that Agadir was a wicked city so Alah directed his wrath apon it ! Big earth quake some years earlier .Sort of Sodom & Gamora I spent 6 weeks in Agadir later . We discoused of varios things he was an inteligent gentleman as we talked by slush lamp light a rat hopped on the wooden box that served for our table . Stenthilly pointed it out He looks and says " Arr Me ratta " his companion .He would light up his two piece small bowl Keef pipe as we talked and he would give a good blow and out through the doorway, there was no door as such, he would blow the coals into the night . I never forgot that my first night on the roads of Africa , My last on that trip was on Fernando Po nye 7 mouths later. Fernando Po dosn't now exist its some native name .
But That Sahibs is another story .
Regards Rudyard
 
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You will be aware what the gourd -like powder flasks are made from , Rick!

Good and rather rare collection there!
I am told there Camel Scrotums But unsure I've got one got it of a strange fellow off the R vous circuits Called 'Peddler' he had a few of them .Well He was no stranger than many who did the R vous .' Swope' the Bead merchant was Booshway at one Eastern & he by boringly conventional standard's was Higher than the Ifill Tower or so youde assess . Throw in' Marino' the Leather seller Miles away from the KIA Campground mind set Well light years probably .Takes all sort to make a world .Take that Rudyard weirdo. Teeesh! now were getting into the hobo heimia. But no one is entirely useless They can always serve as A bad example .
Reflecting Rudyard
 
Yessir, indeed! Some of your stories put me in mind of his style. A real treat to hear / read of all the travels and escapades you share. Thanks so much for your contributions here - you are much appreciated!
Dear Billy Ive allways kept travel diaries got 23 of them some very 'dog eared ' affairs, Its gratifying to hear you like my stories .One chap Fleener dosn,t he reckoned it was a third person style & my views on Black bears me saying there ' Furrey poeple ' But my own findings after a few encounters & a lot of wilderness wanderings Took the veiw that while not actually people. But not the villain's they are oft painted . a view based on MY own expeirinces .I didnt drive, still don't .So hitched & availed of suitable good's trains. Hitch hikeing in my view is a service we offer to the travelling puplic oft as not they stop to have company to talk too or listen its my duty to fill the miles with agreeable conversaion If they can only talk about Football Base ball ect Ime stumpted but if they are interested in history .travel exotic lands , current affairs , phyosophy where away and I've often had such rides you could'nt better if youde tee' d up a row of taxis or we stopped talking long after his turn just so we could continue our conversations . He who sits like pudding is not playing his part . Rail ways are different but ime not heavy and allway's had the greatest respect for the company even if the office might not see it that way . .ANY brain dead Bo can hop freight but its exhilarating and very handy . One winter the roads through the Cascades where all blocked but I knew B N went through the tunnels from Skykomish to Whenachie My friend lived near Monitor Wash as it slowed to the yards I hopped off walked through the snow to the Mac Dougles rang him and thusly saved a long detour via Portland & the Tri city's . Same for the Spokane though the tunnels B N High line to Whitefish the tunnels black as black ,except for the lights at miles. Once did a event at Fort Oswego (Stanwix ?) or the one by the Lake but availed.of a grain car still togged up primitive till well into New York above 287 South ?
I forget but was heading for Sommerville NJ.
' Astra ,Castra, Numen ,Lumen,' viz' 'The Stars my camp providence my guide .' Seemed fitting I know I had a Green Mountain barrel on the Grain car time now its flint rifle 54 cal flint in the English style only one I ever had . As mostly I used Douglas ,Montana/ Orien brls but some nice swamped Getz . I made over 200 not counting a raft of in the whites three ended up in Museums I think that's where lle end up "Stuffed maybe" well Ime nearly' stuffed' now ! .
Regards Rudyard
 
Dear Billy Ive allways kept travel diaries got 23 of them some very 'dog eared ' affairs, Its gratifying to hear you like my stories .One chap Fleener dosn,t he reckoned it was a third person style & my views on Black bears me saying there ' Furrey poeple ' But my own findings after a few encounters & a lot of wilderness wanderings Took the veiw that while not actually people. But not the villain's they are oft painted . a view based on MY own expeirinces .I didnt drive, still don't .So hitched & availed of suitable good's trains. Hitch hikeing in my view is a service we offer to the travelling puplic oft as not they stop to have company to talk too or listen its my duty to fill the miles with agreeable conversaion If they can only talk about Football Base ball ect Ime stumpted but if they are interested in history .travel exotic lands , current affairs , phyosophy where away and I've often had such rides you could'nt better if youde tee' d up a row of taxis or we stopped talking long after his turn just so we could continue our conversations . He who sits like pudding is not playing his part . Rail ways are different but ime not heavy and allway's had the greatest respect for the company even if the office might not see it that way . .ANY brain dead Bo can hop freight but its exhilarating and very handy . One winter the roads through the Cascades where all blocked but I knew B N went through the tunnels from Skykomish to Whenachie My friend lived near Monitor Wash as it slowed to the yards I hopped off walked through the snow to the Mac Dougles rang him and thusly saved a long detour via Portland & the Tri city's . Same for the Spokane though the tunnels B N High line to Whitefish the tunnels black as black ,except for the lights at miles. Once did a event at Fort Oswego (Stanwix ?) or the one by the Lake but availed.of a grain car still togged up primitive till well into New York above 287 South ?
I forget but was heading for Sommerville NJ.
' Astra ,Castra, Numen ,Lumen,' viz' 'The Stars my camp providence my guide .' Seemed fitting I know I had a Green Mountain barrel on the Grain car time now its flint rifle 54 cal flint in the English style only one I ever had . As mostly I used Douglas ,Montana/ Orien brls but some nice swamped Getz . I made over 200 not counting a raft of in the whites three ended up in Museums I think that's where lle end up "Stuffed maybe" well Ime nearly' stuffed' now ! .
Regards Rudyard
Well, your stories, philosophy, and unique style ought to be collated and published for future posterity. I daresay they are absolutely one-of-a-kind; a real trove of useful information and historical insights!
 
Dear Billy. So kind of you to asses my tales so glowingly . I am writing of the first Run the pre & through Equatorial Africa . Its a world now much in strife .. I do have a draft which Ime expanding . I wonder if a Dictaphone type gajet might capture much . I do seem to have had a few adventures .One way & another many like me gun related. But steam ships & Traction Engines came into the picture ,Mayan Temples in the Yucatan ,hurricane off Puerta Cortez Honduras . Many trips to India to buy old guns hence the three Maharajahs in a day bit .little was planned in any detail ' Fate' pops up all long the line & whims over rode planning some times lots of bush trips with muzzle loaders mostly .I write for SAR & an Antigue Arms magazine if some magazines gun related . Like any one who writes I seek feed back positive or negative I suppose most writers do if often you have to get round the Editor or subject who he might not relate to your style.I used to write for Smoke & Fire News Muzzleloader Magazine Scurlocks time not the new he wants photoes I cant produce . Muzzle Blasts is a maybe . I was a long time member NMLRA until the Inline cheaters came in .That and a young familiy even had to give up the MLAGB for who I wrote much . Any way you are right I should record all I can of a world now slipping away .
Regards Rudyard
 
Dear dracer. Re draft yes fine by me but ive since added to the draft Its so gratifying to be having such kind appreciation of my writings .
Regards Rudyard
 
With @Rudyard ’s permission, I can message you a copy of his memoirs from traveling around Africa
Dear Tobjohn Ile send you an update of the Draft. I trust your goodies are with you but of course its easter holidays. Ime very pleased my ramblings (Full of misplaced words ) But still amusing .are liked gives me more incentive to complete the book .FAN Mail !!! Got to love it !
Will send a pic of the Jezail I got up just to have and example 14 years ago. If not today I 'me going hunting . flintlock of course .
.Regards Rudyard
 
Dear Tobjohn Ile send you an update of the Draft. I trust your goodies are with you but of course its easter holidays. Ime very pleased my ramblings (Full of misplaced words ) But still amusing .are liked gives me more incentive to complete the book .FAN Mail !!! Got to love it !
Will send a pic of the Jezail I got up just to have and example 14 years ago. If not today I 'me going hunting . flintlock of course .
.Regards Rudyard
The final parcel is still hanging out at the post office. I’ll have to figure out why.

If you send me the updated draft, I can pass on to the interested parties
 
The final parcel is still hanging out at the post office. I’ll have to figure out why.

If you send me the updated draft, I can pass on to the interested parties
Cant send draft till school opens Tuesday Post office on holiday ? cant see why otherwise but cant be much just office bumph Its nice the writing is so well received .mix of Kipling & Earnest Hemmingway !LOL?.
Cheers Rudyard
 
Been in nearby Uzbekistan for just over a week now and thought this was the more appropriate place to post some photos.

Here is a painting of a hunter from Bukhara
BD615957-211D-40EF-B6F1-412F9F7AEFD0.jpeg


The following were on display in the Ark of Bukhara fortress

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and these were on display in the Zindan prison

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Interesting that it was made for a back action lock, only seen one before
B08997C0-52A9-4417-B65A-0AF26EFDD580.jpeg

Caliber on all these look very small, I’d estimate .40-.45 cal
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This jezail had a EIC lock dated 1809
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