Traditional muzzleloading on the wane?

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'm really enjoying this thread on ways and thoughts to make the hobby better, and I want to first thank Claude and the rest of the Mods for not shutting it down. And Kudos to Jack for posting in the first place!

First-off I want to say I'm sorry to hear of the rudeness at the shotgun range. I've never been to Friendship, and I have NO intention of ever going, BUT I do support the NMLRA and I'm a newly appointed Field Rep for Central NJ. Folks that gave your Boy a hard time should be ashamed of themselves, and KARMA will eventually bite them in the ass! Glad to hear your son stuck with it and you had some wonderful father & son experiences none the less! My fondest memories of my (now 24 year old) son are at the BP clubs we shot at together. I introduced him to his .22 at age 4, made him a Life Member of the NRA by age 5 and he has a life-long hobby and several guns to his credit. And he LOVES shooting black powder (as long as I do most of the clean-up, lol)!

I too came into firearms via the .22 LR route, bought a bunch of centerfire stuff (pistols, rifles, shotguns), then re-discovered my deceased Dad's Cap & Ball. Took it to a BP league match and was LOANED a rifle & everything to make it work. In less than a 20-shot match I was HOOKED, and the rest, as they say, is history!

One of the clubs I belong to does all sorts of league discipline shoots from USPSA runnin' & gunnin' to Black Powder, with up to three matches running simultaneously at the same range complex. So we always draw some interest from passers-by and try to put a rifle in their hands. We make lots of folks smile and some come back with their own equipment. As the club grows, so does the BP league. We usually have to hold multiple relays to get everyone a chance to shoot, since we can only accommodate 10 shooters on the firing line per relay.

We have kids, women, average Joe's and some old-timers, so it's quite a mix, and we all learn from each other. One of our women is going for NRA Distinguished Expert in ML Rifle, and she will be the first female in the Country to hold that title!

Although we allow both cartridge BP firearms (most use caplocks) and inlines, hardly any inlines show-up since most models require cleaning after 4 ignitions, and our COF is a 20 shot aggregate. Between the amount of shooting and the expense$$$ of supplies (pellets, and the projectiles they fire), some of the folks who come out with their inlines have switched-over to PRB, and even more have bought a used Hawken-style gun. So from personal eye-witness experience I can tell you all that muzzleloading in NJ is GROWING!!

The "trick" to growing the league is to have friendly & knowledgeable folks RUNNIN' IT, and WE DO! We share supplies, hold social events like this Saturday's Christmas Party, bring charcoal grills to some of the warm weather matches, help repair guns, demonstrate effective cleaning techniques, and we also have a little fun bustin' balls too, so it all contributes to effective team-building. One of the major factors in growing our league was the adoption of the Winchester NRA Qualification Program for Muzzleloading, administered locally by our league chairman. Earning yer "stripes" and advancing through the various levels of marksmanship towards Distinguished Expert teaches each shooter how to "listen" to their rifle or pistol and the scores go up exponentially not only at the Qualifiers but also our regular league matches. Seeing constant improvement in one's scores keeps the interest level at its' peak, and "infects" new league members with the "bug" that is muzzleloading.

What I've just typed is but some of what ONE of the TWO clubs (that I shoot BP at) does to find & keep members. I'll report later on the club #2, so this post isn't a new version of War & Peace, lol! But for now, muzzleloading is EXPLODING in NJ!

Dave
NRA Distinguished Expert in ML Rifle & Pistol
NRA Life Member
NMLRA Field Rep for Central NJ

To All:

Please feel free to comment on what I wrote here. I reported positive news on growing interest in muzzleloading, and NO ONE responded. I only clicked on Fleener to say a few words about his Boy...the rest of what I wrote is up for discussion, but unfortunately got "lost in the backwash" of whether or not Claude was going to introduce another inline sub-forum.....

Is there anybody else on the forum with similar positive results? If so, I'd like to chat, swap ideas that work, etc.

Thanks!

Dave

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'm providing a place for people to discuss traditional muzzleloading - that's it - no converting, no trying to make the world a better, safer place, no trying to be all things to all shooters.

:thumbsup: 1st if nothing is changed I for one am pretty darn happy with the forum as is.

My only thought is what do we do with the people who are A)new and B) asking a Q that dose not fit our rules.

The Moderators delete the post and PM the member explaining why.

Also as a service could we offer to move the offending Question to some corner, lock it but leave it up for a week or so, so that members can read it, and if they can help they could PM the answer but not post it in open forum.

There are no plans to cater to posts that break the rules. To do so, would defeat the purpose of the rules. Yeah, I'm a hard ass. :wink:

 

[XXX]

Dave,

Good points. You may not have the dependable snowfall for it, but the interest in primitive biathlons has grown on recent years. Vermont now has a least 3 each winter. There was a nice article in VERMONT Magazine a few years back about the SVPB outside Manchester that is put on by one of our members here on the Forum. While this event has a separate class for zipguns and allows modern snowshoes and dress, the article focused on the stories of the competitors in period dress and the traditional weapons being used. All of the photographs published were of old time muzzleloaders, clothes, and snowshoes

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Yeah, I'm a hard ass. :wink:

That's a fare to middling Tee Shirt. I'd ware it, and because it has the " Yea, I'm a hard ass." on it I'm sure half the people I work with would buy the shirt for me.

 

[Snakebite]

I'm going to attempt to get back on topic, I think Cowboy Action Shooting took a lot of the traditional muzzle loaders. I think more shooting in less time, smokeless powder cleaner than BP, etc., Having watched CAS, I think I'll stick with muzzle loading. Nothing against the CAS people, more power to them, just not my cup of tea. Anything to get more people shooting is a good thing.

 

[Zonie]

Grahm;

Can, should, we consider "in-lines" Muzzleloading For Dummies? May be the "gateway drug" to real blackpowder arms and history... Are we no longer able to pretend they don't exist (look what T/C did, and CVA) and create a secluded forum for them here with the hope that they will expand their horizons rather than dilute the rest of our discipline!?...

The Forum has been there, done that and bought the T shirt.

It didn't work then and it won't work now.

The T shirt was ripped apart and many new enemy's were made among our members. :shake:

That experience explains why many of the Forum rules are written as they are.

 

[Stumpkiller]

In-lines most likely are the gateway for many shooters now. But that does not mean we need to allow them here. We are the gateway to traditional muzzleloaders. Eventually those who are curious or seeking deeper meaning and simpler technology will find us. We are not elitists, we just want a place that isn't cluttered up with disinteresting things.

Most of my firearm shooting is .22 long rifle or pistol. No need to discuss it here as it has nothing to do with traditional muzzleloading. The majority of my hunting hours are with a recurve bow and wood arrows - again nothing to do with traditional muzzleloading. I shoot a recurve bow every day (have a 20 yard "range" in my cellar). No one here necessarily cares, or should.

There are other places that I could go for information on either. I come here for my muzzleloading fix. I do not want to hear about scoped, conical shooting "race" muzzleloaders that can kill at 300 yards. I want to hear about flintlocks that reach out 60 or maybe even 100 yards. ;-)

 

[Idaho Ron]

I guess I will have to post more about shooting about to 300 yards with my Hot Rod guns. They are within the rules of the forum. :hatsoff:
Ron

 

[Stumpkiller]

Knock yourself out. There's no law against hitting deer with your car either. Go for it.

 

[Idaho Ron]

If you want to hit them with a car knock your self out, but that is not traditional muzzleloader hunting and should not be talked about here. Ron

 

[sidelock]

Just keep on keepin on. You are doing a great job. I thank you. :v

 

[ol vern]

So if I want to know how to work on my GMC truck, I go to a GM forum and if I want to know what kind of black powder to use I go to a "traditional" ML forum.

That's pretty much the idea behind anything specialized. I belong to a Harley-Davidson forum. I go there because I'm interested in Harleys. If they open it up to Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc., then it's a general "motorcycle" forum - not a Harley forum. It would lose the sense of camaraderie that is important to many.

Like I said, people join here because of what the Forum is. If they don't like it - they don't join. I'm okay with that. If people join and they later decide they don't want to be here anymore, I'm okay with that too.

I'm providing a place for people to discuss traditional muzzleloading - that's it - no converting, no trying to make the world a better, safer place, no trying to be all things to all shooters.

:bow: And if it ent busted don't fix it.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I got all silly there but now I found something that loads from the muzzle and is based on long tradition going back to the 1804 Congreve rocket so I'm ready to be a traditional muzzleloading hunter. Where's the deer at?

 

[RedFeather]

Can I hit the deer with a Connestoga wagon? The ones around here are so tame it is probably doable.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Dixie's new RPG Kentucky, huh??!

Had to smile because that picture made me think of an old running buddy who was a M60 Patton tank driver when he served in Germany back in the early 60's. Jim told of one morning when the armor company pulled up on the range at Grafenwohr and a family of whatever the local deer was wandered out onto the range. Turrets all started turning together! The company commander knew there was no way to stop it so went on the company net and told them to at least fire together and shoot off whatever was in the breach on his command. You can imagine what the result was...not even gravy seasoning!

 

[Alden]

:shocked2:
:nono:
:td:

 

[fleener]

I don't think that we need to discuss inlines on this forum. My point was that we don't treat our own very well at times.

We need to work on getting along and being more tolerant with each other.

Fleener

 

[tatman731]

Well said!! :hatsoff:

 

[TinStar]

Keep up the good work Claude. This is my favorite forum on the web and I hope it remains so. Just hope that I can use something other PayPal in the future so I can pay in.

TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

At least two clubs in this area tried to coax the unmentionables to come out to matches, even with prizes offered, not one showed up. Our idea was that if we can get them out where they will see traditional guns in action, they may be interested enough to convert. It simply did not work. As stated above, I think most in-line shooters are only interested in the extra woods time and possibility to kill rather than in the firearm.