Traditional muzzleloading on the wane?

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that's the same thing that happened in my area too. once in awhile an inline shooter will show up but that's about it. i'm making a generalization here but, inline shooters just aren't interested in target shooting much at all. otherwise you would see people shooting inlines all year not just before deer season. personally i think there is a small percentage of inline shooters who will take an interest in TML. but for the majority of inliners it's just a deer gun.
 
and, fleener is absolutely right we do need to be nice to our own kind all the time. if we're not nice to ourselves what kind of new shooter would want to hang out with a bunch of butt holes.
 
I have started a few different organizations over the years (not firearm related) and one thing I know from hard won experience is that you have to put in more effort than you feel is reasonable to get things started.

Instead of trying to organize a single event for them inline dudes, make it a regular scheduled thing, and stay with it regardless if no one shows up. Eventually things pick up.
 
Cynthialee said:
I have started a few different organizations over the years (not firearm related) and one thing I know from hard won experience is that you have to put in more effort than you feel is reasonable to get things started...

Even in developed voluntary groups 10% of the people do 90% of the work. How could the in-line shooter interested in arms not soon gravitiate to traditional, historic, arms?
 
Cynthialee said:
I have started a few different organizations over the years (not firearm related) and one thing I know from hard won experience is that you have to put in more effort than you feel is reasonable to get things started.

Instead of trying to organize a single event for them inline dudes, make it a regular scheduled thing, and stay with it regardless if no one shows up. Eventually things pick up.

This is what we found to be the case. Some folks show-up with their Inline and shoot a few pellets & saboted pistol bullets. Some show up and use .50 slugs with the pellets. Most deer hunters around these parts sit in tree stands, so the Inline crowd is used to sitting to shoot bench-rest style. Some get LOST shooting offhand, so we offer some tips and they improve. A slight smile can be seen in most cases. We let them try our guns, which results in smiles all around. If they come back a second time, they try patched round balls (can be done with loose powder and the correct charge, but accuracy is finicky at best). By the third appearance they usually have a used Hawken-style gun or they buddy-up with one of our members to borrow their gun for the match. It's a PROCESS, not a "Come to Jesus" Evangelical extravaganza whereby folks jump outta wheelchairs, lol! (And please don't any religious folk get offended with my analogy).

My point is it takes a while, and when something is FUN folks want to come back. So runnin' a single "Who's the Best" Match between Inlines and Sidelocks usually doesn't work, especially if you start dictating how many pellets (maximum charge weights), what type of bullet, bullet weight, etc., since anyone who enters would naturally want to use the load they're already comfortable with, which in some cases is 150 grains of Trip-7...

Black Powder hasn't fully converted me away from all of the other things/disciplines/types of firearms that I use, but it is a big part of what makes me happy and therefore I continue to do it, preach it, live it & LOVE it, lol!

On a lighter note, when running a Match that an Inline Shooter dry balls at (eventually happens to ALL of them), it is a little easier to just de-cap, unscrew his breech and use a range rod to push everything out the back, lol!

Dave
 
smokin .50 said:
[
Black Powder hasn't fully converted me away from all of the other things/disciplines/types of firearms that I use, but it is a big part of what makes me happy and therefore I continue to do it, preach it, live it & LOVE it, lol!
Dave
You know, my first thought was me neither. Then I considered what gun I take first to the range before all others (when picking only for me) My Hawken (ish) caplock. :shocked2: I use the excuse I dont have much ammo left for the modern guns, and its partly true, but sheesh I do still have supplies to make more for the rifle I own.. I think Im a full blooded convert :shocked2:

On thread topic: yes like many outdoor hobbies front stuffers are on the decline. Its sad. If I were suddenly ridiculously rich i would wast a lot of money setting up a manufacturing shop to crank out entry level guns, and it would change that fact..

On the club side, and the forum side: YES we need to be NICE to everyone, it is too easy to give the wrong impression and prevent a potential hobbiest to join our ranks. Ive been to clubs in other hobbies that did just that, then you go to thier meetings and the old grouchy geezers sit around lamenting how they can't understand why no younger folk want to come join em..

In short, its all about being neighborly, and helping when asked, but not interfering unless to give safety advice when not asked. (not to say you should suggest a better way, just accept with respect the persons right to reject your better way)
Until more of us in the hobby can be that way, there really is no hope for a revival imho
 
Adui said:
I've been to clubs in other hobbies that did just that, then you go to thier meetings and the old grouchy geezers sit around lamenting how they can't understand why no younger folk want to come join em.
Us geezers grew up in a different time. My heros growing up were Cowboys. That's what dominated TV and the movies. I had the coonskin cap and room full of toy guns! I got an "A" on the 'Bowie' knife I made in high school metal shop. Today, you get kicked out of school for pointing your finger like a "gun".

Today, it's all Vampires, Zombies and Grand Theft Auto. How can we expect young people to have any interest in an era they've never heard of?

(Okay, I feel much better now) :haha:
 
Agreed. However, how can you expect the rare young person who shows up, naturally not having a clue and most likely not having the "proper" equipment to even try to relate if the old geezers at the club range shun and him or her and or put down the equipment he or she brings with to learn from the old geezers about?

That said, the ML club here in Mesa (the one I've been to anyway) is NOT that way, they welcome everyone with open arms and even offer to let you shoot their weapons to get the taste. Im just saying I've experienced it in two of my other hobbies and can see the other side..
 
Adui said:
Agreed. However, how can you expect the rare young person who shows up, naturally not having a clue and most likely not having the "proper" equipment to even try to relate if the old geezers at the club range shun and him or her and or put down the equipment he or she brings with to learn from the old geezers about?
Have you said this to the geezers in question? If not, nothing will change. Preaching to the choir won't do it.
 
Claude said:
Us geezers grew up in a different time. My heros growing up were Cowboys. That's what dominated TV and the movies. I had the coonskin cap and room full of toy guns! I got an "A" on the 'Bowie' knife I made in high school metal shop.
(Okay, I feel much better now) :haha:

Di-sect the above comments and it's easy to see why our sport (and all the shooting sports) are on the far side of the hill picking up speed with no brakes.

Coon-skin cap = PETA protesting on your front lawn and throwing red dye on you if you wear it in public.

Toy Guns = ALL the child psychologists agree that will lead to violence later in life, so remove them from the home.

Bowie Knife in a school setting - SWAT team, lock down, and further calls on every media station to ban all but plastic utensils (which may not have a sharp edge on them).

Maybe I'm starting to agree with far reaching gun control. At least right now most traditional rifles aren't considered "firearms". Sure would be a boost to our sport if all pistols/center fires/inlines were banned....
 
I guess we're really fortunate, since one of our "Geezers" is a stoke victim, has limited use of his left side, and on occasion bench rests his Omega Zip Gun shooting slugs or PRB from 100 yards. He also uses a traditional caplock on occasion. So we don't suffer from the "Grumpy Old Geezer" syndrome. He's also the official league score keeper, and will be sharing some marinated venison medallions at this Saturday's Christmas Party! And they taste too good to worry about what he used to harvest them....

I do agree that one source of info (this forum) can't be all things to all people. We're specialized, just like the Mosin Forum, the 1911 Forum, the Garand Forum, etc., and that's a GOOD thing IMHO.

My hope is that other clubs with the "Geezer" problem convince the Geezers to let visitors see what all of the FUN is about, because it WORKS when you let it......

Dave
 
No, that was definitely tongue in cheek.

I live in a country with extreme gun control. And despite the fact that flintlocks are expressly "excluded" from any sort of control here (as far as acquisition/ownership is concerned) the logical assumption would be that they may be (somewhat) popular.

The opposite is in fact the reality.

It's my opinion, in society such as mine (and you can add Britain and Australia to that since our restrictions are quite similar) that the "control" of any type of firearm ownership discourages any interest/ownership.

The loss of any gun owner, whether or not they choose to shoot a center fire, inline, traditional , whatever, is always a bad thing for us all.

I'm not saying you in the US don't understand how good you really have it, but I think the tolerance for others "gun choices" would increase dramatically if all your rights were "seriously" in jeopardy.

(perspective of an "outsider" looking in)
 
Is there any tree that has lime green wood? We can have "Zombie Killer" flintlock longrifles made with powdercoat green painted and red splattered barrels. That will bring them in!


Act now and get a matching war club!

Cold-Steel-Indian-War-Club.jpg
 
Went to a mummy shoot once. Egyptian mummy silly wets cut from Drywall. Neat puff of dust when a hit was made.
 
it is simple. When my kids were younger I used to host a father son weekend at my farm. Shooting just about every type of guy you can think of and yes BP and even a flinter. Most of these kids have never shot a gun, played in a creek, shot a bow, cooked over an open fire, slept in a tent etc.

We all had a great time. They next year you could not believe the number that showed up with their own guns and fishing poles and something to cook over the fire other than a poptart.

I started a youth trap shooting club last year. Had a few kids with zero experience. They had a great time. Yes it was with modern shotguns, but when I show up with my ML shotguns, they also had a ball with them. Did they go out and buy ML? No, but at least I planted some seeds, and perhaps one day they will grow....

It is called mentoring.

Fleener
 
I know I am lucky to live in Iowa, and it is not by accident that I stay.

My kids school is not all wacked out about guns, nor are most of our schools in our area.

I have taken quite a few ML to hunter safety classes when I teach at the area schools.

I had support for our school to start the trap team. In the Midwest school trap teams are popping up everywhere. The interest is huge.
It is even in a sport you can earn a letter in for quite a few schools.
Fleener
 
Sadly Claude, I was too inexperienced in the hobby, and being the kind of guy who doesn't like confrontation I chose silence and didn't go back. But as i said, it was different hobbies of mine and while I am certain there are plenty of that type in our hobby I have not encountered them yet.

It is however pretty much the whole reason I didn't look for help in this hobby 20+ years ago. Good ol' boys clubs turn me off and I simply didn't want to experience that so didn't give them a chance..
 
Well Adui, if it helps, on behalf of the "old geezers" you were put off by, though I'm not one of them, we're sorry. Com'on everyone -- group hug for the 44 year old "kid": (((A))). Good now!?

It's never too late. Look at it this way... Mandela lived for 68 years OUTSIDE of prison!
 
Recent article from a state sponsored magazine...
“Now that we’ve got this blackpowder season, it gives you a way to shoot that deer that was out of range with the bow,” he said. “With today’s muzzleloaders, you can shoot a deer at 100-150 yards.

“It just amazes me, I’ll have somebody during muzzleloader season and they say, ”˜the deer must not have been moving because I’m the only one that shot that I could hear.’ I say, ”˜No, you were probably the only one out there hunting.’ It’s a big missed opportunity for people not to take advantage of the special muzzleloader season.”

Norton thinks part of the blame for the low number of muzzleloaders is a lack of education about the sport these days and some misconceptions left over from a bygone era.

“I know I was the same way when I first started shooting one,” Norton said. “I had you and Cuz (Ronnie Strickland) teaching me how to load it and clean it. The old way, that was a pain, having to break one down and clean it. It would make you not want to shoot one. You used to just about have to put one in the bathtub with you to get it clean.

“Today’s muzzleloaders, it takes 15 or 20 minutes to clean. You can shoot these guns a dozen times before they have to be cleaned. Back then, after the third or fourth shot, you had to clean it or you couldn’t get the bullet down the barrel. And the accuracy back then wasn’t that great. About 50-60 yards was about as far as you felt comfortable shooting one. Now, with the Knight in-line gun I’ve got, I can shoot a three-shot group and hit a Skoal can at 100 yards. It’s unbelievable how good these guns shoot.”

Of course, there are those traditional blackpowder hunters who use only flintlock rifles and patched balls. Those hunters are avid primitive weapons enthusiasts and know the limitations of their weapons.

For the average hunter, the modern muzzleloader offers additional opportunity that, with some diligence, will expand his or her deer-hunting prowess.
:bull: :bull: :bull:
 

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