Traditions lock reliability improvements?

[RobertIN]

Howdy y'all! Pretty new to the BP world and am soaking up great information from the forums, it's all greatly appreciated!

The rifle in question:

Now onto the meat and potatoes. I recently completed my first kit from Traditions and while I know it's bottom of the barrel stuff I'm having a good time with it thusfar. However, with it being a lower end (compared to the beauties I see posted here!) rifle with a tiny lock I want to improve reliability for range and hunting use.

What would you recommend I do with it with what I have, I'm not going to purchase a better lock for this rifle (lipstick on a pig you know). I'd rather put the cash into my piggybank for a genuinely nice rifle down the road.

So far I've been mulling over:

1. Weakening the frizzen spring via the c-clamp method (it's really tight and my flint is gouging horizontal lines, sometimes not fully moving the frizzen forward). The steel doesn't seem to be very hard or is experiencing excessive wear from the spring.

2. Removing material on the heel (probably incorrect terminology) of the frizzen so it can physically move forward a bit further.

3. Polishing all surfaces where friction is present as well as the pan.

4. If the above fails to produce adequate results, drill out the touch hole in tiny increments or purchase a better quality hole liner.

I'd love to hear your suggestions, I really appreciate any feedback you fine folks have for me.

Thunk-Bang!

 

[necchi]

3. Polishing all surfaces where friction is present as well as the pan.

Definitely that.
The weak spot for those locks have always been the tumbler/lock plate interface, without an inner bridle for support that one spot takes all the pressure from the mainspring as well as the brunt of the hammer falls force.
Polishing the inside of the lock plate and contact surface of the tumble and the sear helps a lot. Be careful near that raised area of the tumbler that fit's through the lock plate, (it's the main point of wear) you don't want to remove any material there at all.
After that it's about lube, those thing like plenty and keep it fresh, remove old oil with brake cleaner spray and add fresh oil frequently.
Another tip; When you have that tumble/sear screw set to where you want the trigger to break,, a drop of loktite or nail polish helps hold it in place

 

[rafterob]

Necchi has good advice on this. They are actually decent locks and I have not heard any complaints from those that actually own and shoot them. Don't worry now about making any drastic alterations.

 

[RobertIN]

Definitely that.
The weak spot for those locks have always been the tumbler/lock plate interface, without an inner bridle for support that one spot takes all the pressure from the mainspring as well as the brunt of the hammer falls force.
Polishing the inside of the lock plate and contact surface of the tumble and the sear helps a lot. Be careful near that raised area of the tumbler that fit's through the lock plate, (it's the main point of wear) you don't want to remove any material there at all.
After that it's about lube, those thing like plenty and keep it fresh, remove old oil with brake cleaner spray and add fresh oil frequently.
Another tip; When you have that tumble/sear screw set to where you want the trigger to break,, a drop of loktite or nail polish helps hold it in place

Thanks for the tips! It's a fun little gun to learn on.

 

[Commodore Swab]

1. Weakening the frizzen spring via the c-clamp method (it's really tight and my flint is gouging horizontal lines, sometimes not fully moving the frizzen forward). The steel doesn't seem to be very hard or is experiencing excessive wear from the spring.

2. Removing material on the heel (probably incorrect terminology) of the frizzen so it can physically move forward a bit further.

3. Polishing all surfaces where friction is present as well as the pan.

4. If the above fails to produce adequate results, drill out the touch hole in tiny increments or purchase a better quality hole liner.

1. When a spring is bent past its (simplifying terms) maximum bend point it looses its ability to return and destroys the spring.
2. Removing material on the heel of the frizzen can work but you havent changed the spring tension merely how far the spring is bent. Typically this will result in a much shorter engagement as the tension is still there. A better option is to remove material from the spring keeping it cool. It is easy to destroy the spring taking too much off, getting warm, or just making a thin spot where it can break easier. Remember the tension needs to be relative to the main spring. Too little and it will get knocked open too much and it will destroy flints/not open the pan.
3. Polishing and a clean lock can work wonders. These locks are plagued by a very small frizzen (narrow) which even with a well tuned lock is not as reliable as one with a larger frizzen.
4. No need to think about this unless you are getting ignition in the pan and not the barrel.

My "suggestions" are to give the frizzen spring and frizzen a good polish, considering you have groves and wear it will need to be smoothed out before polishing. Dont forget the screw, in fact make sure the frizzen moves freely without the spring. Rotation is good, rocking sideways is bad. Clean/dress the frizzen and reharden it, lastly pick a good flint and install it correctly.

 

[64Springer]

With respect, there's nothing bottom of the barrel about Traditions firearms.

Build the kits correctly and maintain them and the guns will last several generations.

Only mentioning this because lots of newcomers need a way into this sport and many of them aren't willing or simply can't afford 1,500 dollar rifles.

Good luck with your piece, OP.

 

[RobertIN]

With respect, there's nothing bottom of the barrel about Traditions firearms.

Build the kits correctly and maintain them and the guns will last several generations.

Only mentioning this because lots of newcomers need a way into this sport and many of them aren't willing or simply can't afford 1,500 dollar rifles.

Good luck with your piece, OP.

Don't get me wrong it's a fine rifle, perfectly useable but it's not exceptional. Perfect for somebody like me to fart around with while I learn more about the higher end options. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone to pick one up.

 

[bldtrailer]

or you can spend 200+ more and some wood removal with a l&R replacement lock

 

[RobertIN]

View attachment 269493or you can spend 200+ more and some wood removal with a l&R replacement lockView attachment 269494

I was tempted to go that route, but I'm trying to work with what I've got right now. Money is tight =/

 

[Tumbledown]

I made a few mods to mine. First, smooth out the seam cast in the frizzen on the part that rides on the spring. Second, mine had a wave washer in the frizzen hinge. I replaced it with a plain washer as the wave washer added a LOT of friction. 3rd, you may need to change the profile of the frizzen where it rides the spring just ever so slightly. The frizzen should pop open pretty much on its own once the flint has traveled down its length and then stay open without too much rebounding.

Here's mine after reworking.

 

[kyron4]

I have the same rifle and have had ZERO problems with the lock and it is 100% stock as it came from the factory. All I do is keep it clean and properly lubed. . I get around 30 to 40 shots with a black English flint (5/8"x3/4"). My only issues have been flash in the pans caused by fouled touch hole (not picking when I should) and fouling build up in the patent breech. Both are rare and mainly occur when shooting on high humidity day. Spare frizzen can be had for $30 if you ever manage to ware one out.

Rules I live by, " If it ain't broke, don't fix it " and " The best is the enemy of good enough"

Carry on.

 

[RobertIN]

I have the same rifle and have had ZERO problems with the lock and it is 100% stock as it came from the factory. All I do is keep it clean and properly lubed. . I get around 30 to 40 shots with a black English flint (5/8"x3/4"). My only issues have been flash in the pans caused by fouled touch hole (not picking when I should) and fouling build up in the patent breech. Both are rare and mainly occur when shooting on high humidity day. Spare frizzen can be had for $30 if you ever manage to ware one out.

Rules I live by, " If it ain't broke, don't fix it " and " The best is the enemy of good enough"

Carry on.

I get what you're saying. I can't help myself when it comes to tinkering and small improvements. I'm chewing up flints and the frizzen isn't looking too pretty after 25> shots so longevity is also a concern.

 

[FlinterNick]

Howdy y'all! Pretty new to the BP world and am soaking up great information from the forums, it's all greatly appreciated!

The rifle in question:View attachment 269412

Now onto the meat and potatoes. I recently completed my first kit from Traditions and while I know it's bottom of the barrel stuff I'm having a good time with it thusfar. However, with it being a lower end (compared to the beauties I see posted here!) rifle with a tiny lock I want to improve reliability for range and hunting use.

What would you recommend I do with it with what I have, I'm not going to purchase a better lock for this rifle (lipstick on a pig you know). I'd rather put the cash into my piggybank for a genuinely nice rifle down the road.

So far I've been mulling over:

1. Weakening the frizzen spring via the c-clamp method (it's really tight and my flint is gouging horizontal lines, sometimes not fully moving the frizzen forward). The steel doesn't seem to be very hard or is experiencing excessive wear from the spring.

2. Removing material on the heel (probably incorrect terminology) of the frizzen so it can physically move forward a bit further.

3. Polishing all surfaces where friction is present as well as the pan.

4. If the above fails to produce adequate results, drill out the touch hole in tiny increments or purchase a better quality hole liner.

I'd love to hear your suggestions, I really appreciate any feedback you fine folks have for me.

Thunk-Bang!
View attachment 269413

I’ve worked on a few traditions locks.

They’re machined pretty well.

The most common issues I’ve found with them is the burrs between the inside of the bridle, tumbler and fly.

I’ve deburred them by shot peening with 1mm stainless steel shot in a tumbler, the action is improved ten fold, same procedures done on other parts including the frizzen.

Frizzens benefit from case hardening (not carburizing) , quenched in oil and then tempered at 370-400 will throw a reliable shower of sparks.

 

[bldtrailer]

reshape the frizen foot to open farther , weaken frizen spring and polish all baring surfaces

100 yrds tallow lube # 40 pocket drill patch 490 ball 3f swiss 65grns sight in target shot the 2 to the right moved sight high right then final sight move down the middle with a flinch

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Only mentioning this because lots of newcomers need a way into this sport and many of them aren't willing or simply can't afford 1,500 dollar rifles.

Very true. "Discretionary income" is getting more difficult to come by and the Traditions guns I've had in my life (at least five) worked well. My 2 centavos to this discussion is the Trad flinter, I used Tracks hardening compound and it was much more reliable after having done it.

 

[?mark]

Since we're are on the subject of making Traditions Kentucky rifle better. I have a flintlock 50 cal. I want to change the touch hole for faster ignition so the pan powder doesn't have to travel down the English tunnel to reach the the barrel powder. It looks like they have a liner inside another liner. Has anybody had experience with removing this second liner?

 

[bldtrailer]

for all that have traditions locks Brad at cabin creek said he works on them to make them work right
cabincreek.net

Cabin Creek Muzzle Loading​

50 W Beaver St, Hallam, PA 17406 · 60 mi
(717) 757-5841

 

[Tumbledown]

Since we're are on the subject of making Traditions Kentucky rifle better. I have a flintlock 50 cal. I want to change the touch hole for faster ignition so the pan powder doesn't have to travel down the English tunnel to reach the the barrel powder. It looks like they have a liner inside another liner. Has anybody had experience with removing this second liner?

It is a patent breech. Ignition is supposed to be better because it ignites the base of the charge and the entire force is directed forward. You cannot "remove" it. I do suggest trying less powder in the pan. The #1 cause of slow ignition is too much powder creating a fuse effect. You want the pan to flash almost instantly.

 

[awreis]

I pour a little powder in the barrel then tap the butt of the rifle on the ground, or hit the side with my palm, it seems to allow a little powder to trickle down into the breech area. I have also polished my lock, drilled the touch hole out to 1/16" and removed material on the heel of the frizze to weaken the tention and everything has helped with the reliability of my rifle.

 

[M. De Land]

View attachment 269493or you can spend 200+ more and some wood removal with a l&R replacement lockView attachment 269494

I sure like that throated cock on that lock !