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Traditions - Not Happy

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tr07416

36 Cal.
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
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I wish I had talked to you guys before I invested in my Traditions PA rifle. At the time I had no experience with BP, I hadn't discovered the fourm, and I thought the price was right.

After my first post, someone suggested that my best move would be to trade the Traditions in and
put the cash toward a decent gun. After only a few
shots I thought that was an over reaction, but now that I have some time behind the sights, I realize that advice was right on. It won't fire
consistantly. I realize I still have a lot to learn and user error may still be a big part of my problem, but after talking to a number of other shooters and seeing their fine rifles, I
realize, as is usually true, you get what you pay for.

My question is: Is there anything I can still do to get my gun to shoot consistantly and if so would it be cost effective? Someone suggested a "White Lighting" vent liner may help? I really don't have the cash to invest in a quality firearm right now and I really have enjoyed shooting (when it goes off). Any thoughts?
 
Pick the vent every shot with something like a feather quill or nipple pick after it is loaded. Dump the powder and bump the side with the lock a couple of times to settle the powder into the channel before ramming the ball. Take the lock off the gun and fire it in a dark room with the flint in bevel up and bevel down. Use it the way that puts the most hot sparks in the pan. That is the easiest way to figure things out. Coning the outside of the vent liner might help since the actual vent is down in the screwdriver slot. After making sure the lock was putting the sparks in the pan, my gun fires just fine with the flint bevel down as long as I pick the vent and make sure there is powder on the other side of it!
 
What are you using for the main charge and what are you priming with?

If you are using substitute powder that's your problem.

Get some Goex 2f for the charge and 4f for the prime and I bet she'll go off every time.

HD
 
I had a .50 cal Traditions Shennandoah flintlock for a long time. I had no problems with it touching off the charge...I always used 3 fff for the main charge and 4 FFF for prime. I always picked the vent and wiped off the flint before each shot.
Dont get yer feathers all roughed up too soon.
Flintlocks can be picky....and most of all
always use Black Powder,,,,not a substitute.
Some time flintlocks are particular bout what kind of flint is used also....
 
What do you mean by, it won't fire. are you not getting spark, or is the pan going off and not setting off the main charge?
 
Scalper's advice is absolutely right! I've had my Shenandoah for almost 20 years and it is still reliable. I have best luck with the English hand-knapped flints from Track of the Wolf, one of the great bargains in shooting. Don't give up yet.

Regards, Jeff
 
What does the rifle do? If its just setting the priming powder off, put the powder next to the touch hole. I also like to push some 4f into the touch hole to speed up the ignition. Over priming leads to slow ignition. Ive only had my traditions kentucky for almost 2 years and i know that rifle well. You need to practice with different priming loads, find what amount does best, where you place the powder, exe. Ever pick up some 5/8" tom fuller flints?
Have to give it time and learn how to use the rifle and proper way to charge the pan.
 
Another point could be the venthole. Maybe it is drilled to small. This is a prob many production rifles have, also the Lyman. Drill it off and ignition will do well. My opinion about Traditions belongs to my deerhunter and I it is a good one.

So tell us the fails in detail, then we can help!

Regards

Kirrmeister
 
Like you I bought my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle in 50cal before I knew of this helpful forum. I bought it 2-1/2 years ago and now have over 4,000 rounds through it. I do have to pick the vent more than my other rifle and since the breech has a (22 cal + 3/8 deep) bore,I have to use a 22cal brush for that area when cleaning the barrel. Because of Traditions design at the vent area I don't think a White Lightning Vent could be used. Traditons have a bushing installed at that location and their small vent tapped into it. I sent my barrel back to them because I thought it had a crack just outside of the vent. They called me and told me about the bushing.
Use about 3 grains in the pan of 3f or 4f. Tom Fuller flints are the best. Good shooting.
 
I had some problems with a Shenadoaha flinter. I did two things to get it to shoot. First of all I drilled out the flash liner with a drill bit 1 size larger than the original hole. The second thing was getting a LPR lock from LR. Kind of a bummer to have to buy a new $100 lock for a new rifle. After that it worked fine. Also make sure your using good flints (Tom Fueller). My rifle also sparked alot better bevel down.

Anyhow that was years ago. I've learned to just save a bit of extra cash and get a good rifle/gun with a great lock.

This story is repeated time and time again on this forum.

Rio
 
TRR,
I have a Traditions Pennsylvania Flintlock. I’m very pleased with both the quality and performance. I have found that flintlocks are very temperamental and thus requiring devotion and perseverance to ensure reliable operation. My initial encounter with a flinter was a total disaster took many many attempts and experimentation till I mastered loading and priming. I also learned that when the rifle did not touch off it was my fault and not the guns. So before trading off an excellent rifle give it some time and enjoy the learning curve and have some fun. I’m still finding out new tricks and learning something new about my rifle every time I shoot her. TRR you have an excellent rifle there so I would not get too discouraged. So hang on to her and you will find it to be a very enjoyable rifle for a life time, This is a great forum and you will find many tips that will help you on the way.

Juggernaut
 
My first flinter was a Traditions Shenandoah. I had an awful time getting it to fire. The lock wasn't engineered correctly, and the frizzen didn't spark well. If I put the flint in with the bevel-up, the frizzen wouldn't open. If I put it in bevel-down, the flint pointed past the pan when fired. I finally had a custom rifle built, and it fires every time.
 
Yep, been there, done that and watched friends go there and do that. A cheap price is very attractive, especially to a cheap guy like me. You may even get along OK with a cheap percussion if your expectations are not too high, but a cheap flintlock is no thing of joy. So first you replace the lock just to get it to fire. Then you are not satisfied with the accuracy so you replace the barrel. By now, even doing the work yourself, you've spent more than the cost of a custom rifle "in-the-white" and you've put a lot more time and effort into it than would have been required to finish a rifle in-the-white. And for all of that, you still only have a Traditions, CVA, Junkar or whatever, all be it one which shoots OK. If one can learn from the experience of others it saves going down that road yourself.
The problem is, with current pricing, even a cheap rifle can cost over five hundred dollars!
 
Well, I think that if you have a new lock and a new barrel from other manufacturers, then it isn't a Traditions anymore, really. And so long as it shoots well and is reliable, even if you do still consider it a Traditions, so what? It shoots well and is reliable.
 
Squirrel Tail said:
Well, I think that if you have a new lock and a new barrel from other manufacturers, then it isn't a Traditions anymore, really.

The stock design and hardware screams trraditions. Even though the expense of replacing the lock and barrel, which will probably exceed $200; the return on sale or trade will be for a traditions rifle...and maybe less because of the modifications.

Squirrel Tail said:
And so long as it shoots well and is reliable, even if you do still consider it a Traditions, so what? It shoots well and is reliable.

At what expense? It's impossible to make a mercedes from a chevy, just as it's impossible to make a custom gun from any mass produced rifle. In the end, one only has a prettier chevy that is not worth the expense of the improvements.

IMHO, these cheap guns are just that..cheap, and you do get what you pay for. If anyone of you folks shooting a cheap gun were to get your hands on a quality gun, you would immediately recognize the difference in fit, ease of aiming, shooting and reliability, and the improvement in over all feel and quality.

I understand the desire for immediate gratification by buying whatever gun one can afford at the time. But, if one were to recognize, what I consider the tremedndous benefits of buying a quality gun, owning a quality piece is more than worth the time necessary to save up and wait for a unique, quality firearm that may become a treasured family heirloom.

TRR
That said, specifically what is the issue with your gun? Someone may be able to help.
J.D.
 
Well, we must politely disagree, I suppose.
:surrender:
I HAVE held a custom gun, and yes, the fit, finish,and overall quality were much better than any of the various factory guns I've had. I couldn't say about the accuracy, because I've never had a problem with the accuracy of the factory guns I've had.

But the better fit and finish, (and better styling, I'll admit) of custom guns, in my personal opinion, isn't worth the cost difference.

Just as I'm perfectly happy with my Saturn (except I wish it were yellow, but that's a different, i.e. wife, issue) and have no wish for a Lexus, I am perfectly happy with my Traditions and have no particular desire for a custom gun.

Despite my occasional complaints about money (who doesn't?) I could afford the Lexus, and I could afford a custom gun, but I don't think the added cost is justified in either case.

Fact is that if someone gave me a Lexus I'd sell it and buy a Saturn, or maybe a Ford, and use the extra money for something else. Same with a custom gun, if someone gave me one free, I'd sell it and buy a Traditions or another factory gun and use the extra money on something else.

My critera for a gun are that it must look nice (a personal opinion), be more or less period "appropriate" (not "PC" as someone else defines it, this is also a personal opinion), shoots well, and is reliable. Generally I've found Traditions and TC meet those criteria fine for me.

As they say, your milage may vary (and most likely does! :grin: )
 
Hey Squirreltail,

I own both a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle and a beautifully made Early Lancaster. The early Lancaster has a Queen Anne Lock, tiger stripe maple (Traditions is walnut), a 44" swamped barrel with button rifling (Traditions is 40¾" straight and VERY muzzle heavy), slender forearm instead of the plank-like forearm of the Traditions stock, and an offset to the butt of the gun so I don't have to lean over the top of the butt to see the sights (no bruises Like I'd get from the Traditions).

It's a beautifully balanced rifle put together with superb craftsmanship and has a perfectly tuned lock and trigger. It also cleans easier than the traditions and doesn't have a tiny patent breech to sometimes get clogged. I think my Lancaster is 4-5 times the gun that the Traditions is, and I really enjoy handling and shooting it.

To each his own, but I far prefer my Early Lancaster. Thanks to tg for making such a fine rifle.

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:
 
Period correctness (another term for historical correctness) is not a matter of personal opinion, but rather a matter of fact. It is good that you are so easily pleased as regards authenticity and quality as there are not nearly enough custom builders around to supply those of us who do care about such things. Thank you for making life a little easier for us. :hatsoff:
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
Period correctness (another term for historical correctness) is not a matter of personal opinion, but rather a matter of fact.

Your statement is true, but I never said that Period Correctness was a matter of personal opinion, although I see how what I said could be mis-interpreted as saying that. :redface: What I meant was that period "Appropriate", a term I personally use, and as far as I know not a standard term, is a matter of personal opinion.
"...be more or less period "appropriate" (not "PC" as someone else defines it, this is also a personal opinion)..." 'this' in this statement referring to my term period appropriate, not referring to PC. I didn’t intend for that statement to imply that PC was a matter of opinion.

PC is clearly a matter of documentation and a lot of careful research. However, period appropriate, as I use it, means "more or less roughly correct for the vague time period and location". Such a non-specific definition is, by its very nature, a matter of personal opinion.

I have no beef with those who wish their weapons, dress, and accouterments to be as accurate as possible for the time period they are attempting to recreate. I personally am not interested in that, but if you are, fine with me, as long as you don’t give me grief about the fact that I personally don’t care that much.

As far as being “easily pleased”, perhaps that’s true, although I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that assessment as a blanket statement.

I don’t go to rendezvous’ or shooting contests, or gatherings of any sort, so you can rest assured that I won’t be attempting to pass off my Traditions Hawken, or blanket coat made from an old army blanket, or any of the stuff I make for myself, as historically correct. They’re not. Never said they were. I like them. I honestly don’t care if other people like them or not. So since I pretty much don’t care about authenticity in the way you mean the term, you’re correct, I am easily pleased in that regard.

I am not, at least in my opinion, so easily pleased in the performance area. I expect my weapons to function reliably, and to be accurate.

“Reliably” could, I suppose, be a matter of opinion, but my Traditions flintlock has only had a single flash in the pan in about 300 shots since I got it about a year ago, which is firing about 99.7% of the time. My previous flintlocks, a T/C, and another the manufacturer of which I don’t remember as it was many years ago, all fired pretty much as reliably. I did have one very cheap kit gun where the lock broke after less than 50 shots, but I never had a problem with the others. To me, 99.7% reliability is satisfactory. Perhaps I could get a higher reliability with a $1000, or $1500 gun, but to me, and this is just my personal view, doubling or tripling the price for what could be, at most, a 3 tenths of one percent increase in reliability, is simply not a reasonable expenditure of money. Of course I could have, by chance, received a good lock while the average lock from the same manufacturer is not as reliable, I couldn't say.

Almost all my hunting is done at a range of 50 yards or less. At 50 yards from a bench rest my Traditions usually puts a 3-shot group in a 4 inch diameter circle. That meets my needs as far as accuracy goes. Your requirements may be more stringent.

Aesthetics are by their nature a matter of opinion. I personally find the fore stocks of many original guns and “accurate” reproductions to look too thin, especially full stock guns, to my eye they look fragile and unbalanced. A swamped barrel looks odd to me, kind of silly looking actually. A personal opinion on the appearance, not a value statement about the tastes of the owner. They may be authentic, but I personally don’t like the looks of many of them. So this isn’t a question of having low standards, it’s a matter of having different aesthetic preferences.

SO, after that rather long-winded explanation (an occupational hazard among academics, I fear), back to my original points, several posts ago. 1) If you replace 2 of the 3 major parts of a gun, the barrel and the lock, you can’t really say that the result is still the same gun as the original. A gun that has a Traditions stock but a GM barrel and a L&R lock cannot accurately be called a Traditions, any more than a car with a Chevy body shell on a Ford frame with a Chrysler engine could accurately be called a Chevy. Whether the result is better or worse than the original is not involved, and
2) If your primary concerns are not authenticity or style, but simply reliability and accuracy, you many find the factory guns to meet your needs, despite the fact that a few of those with more expensive guns, especially custom guns, will tend to disparage your choice. (This statement is not intended to refer to any specific person.)

As a last point on this topic, let me state that if YOU feel that the extra money you pay for your custom gun is worth it, in terms of quality, reliability, accuracy, authenticity, or whatever, I have no problem with that. If you are happy with your gun, great! I’m not going to sit here and say you wasted your money. If none of the factory guns meet your needs, or desires, then it makes perfect sense to spend the money on a custom gun. However, those of us who find that a factory gun does meet our needs or desires are not lesser for that fact, either.

Good shooting! :thumbsup:
 
In response to your original questions, before investing in a different vent hole liner, make sure your vent is in the proper place first. Your vent should be even with the top of your pan, centered with the pan as far as foward or backwards. Yes a white lighting liner can help but you may do as well by drilling out the hole by 1/16 (ie if you current vent hole is 1/16, drill it out with a 1/8 drill or 3/16) first.

Make sure your vent pick is long enough to go clear to the other side of the barrel, you may need to file it down so it goes ALL the way through, not just crush the powder at the vent.

Make sure you bank your priming charge away from the vent. This allows more of the flash to go towards the vent than be misdirected by grains under it.
 
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