Traditions - Not Happy

[Larry Pletcher]

Wow! Thanks Pletch. I'm really showing my lack of understanding here! I was figuring 2/16 = 1/8 and that would be the next largest size bit. You saved me on that one. As you can tell, not much experience in the machining dept. You folks have been talking about #2 and #5 bits, but I didn't get it. They must be sizes in between the standard sizes. Should I mess with them or go right to a 5/64?
Thank again,
TR

TR,
I just looked up my MuzzleBlasts article to see which ones I used in the tests. Below are numbered bits falling between 1/16" and too big. The starred ones were included in my tests.


1/16" (.0625")*
no. 52 (.0635")
no. 51 (.0670")
no. 50 (.070") *
no. 49 (.0730")
no. 48 (.076")
5/64" (.078") *
no. 45 (.086") *

If you want, you could sneak up on the proper size for your gun by starting with a no. 52 and go larger until you are satisfied with the gun's performance.

I personally like a no. 50 (.070") and feel that 5/16" borders on too large. But each situation is different. I'd guess that a no. 50 or a no. 49 will be getting pretty close. I've told shooters in the past that 5/64" is probably as large as I'd go and to sneak up on it if you have to go that large.

This January I want to start a timing test to see if I can tell the difference between a too high or too low vent hole location in the pan. The vent I will be using is a Chambers liner drilled to .070" with a slight exterior cone. I chose that diameter because it performed well in the Feb 2000 tests. That's why I expect you to do well as you get close to that diameter.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[J.D.]

There are several sizes of number and letter drill bits between the fractional sizes. The drill bit number, diameter, and fractional diameters are as follows.

• ---------- Drill bit dia---Fractional dia
  # 52-------------.063------nominal 1/16"
  # 51-------------.067
  # 50-------------.070
  # 49-------------.073
  # 48-------------.076
  # 47-------------.078-------5/64
  

Depening on caliber,I would start with 1/16", then progress to #51, or #50. IMHO, an overly large TH causes loss of power and accuracy, so for a 50 cal, for example, I wouldn't go any larger than # 49 unless ignition is still inconsistent.

I suggest using a patch wrapped around a 30 cal bore brush to remove any fouling that you might push into the antechamber of your rifle.

A better solution might be to file or grind about .020-.030 from the diameter of your jag, so's the patch will slide past the fouling on the way in, but bunch up to pull fouling out of the bore, instead of pushing it down to obstruct the mouth of the patent breech.

I suspect that an obstructed antechamber is the problem instead of the diameter of the TH, though a proper diameter TH can improve ignition considerably...if the powder gets into the breech.

I also suggest coning the outside of the liner to the bottom of the screw slot to remove the shadow effect created by the shelf of the slot. Don't go too deep, just to the bottom of the screw slot.

Dang Pletch, I knew I was slow, but i didn't think I was that slow,though I did have to run to the shop to get the drill bit numbers and diameters.

Someone might post these drill bit diameters in some sticky or in the resources section. This topic seems to come up quite often.
J.D.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

There are several sizes of number and letter drill bits between the fractional sizes. The drill bit number, diameter, and fractional diameters are as follows.

• ---------- Drill bit dia---Fractional dia
  # 52-------------.063------nominal 1/16"
  # 51-------------.067
  # 50-------------.070
  # 49-------------.073
  # 48-------------.076
  # 47-------------.078-------5/64
  

Dang Pletch, I knew I was slow, but i didn't think I was that slow, though I did have to run to the shop to get the drill bit numbers and diameters.
J.D.

JD,
You're not slow. My chart was in the basement. probably less steps. (Think I'll keep a copy next to the computer though. As you say, this comes up often.)
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Runner]

The powder chamber is much smaller than 30 caliber on his gun. It is closer to .24. The connecting channel is even smaller yet. The vent liner is pretty small. The best way to clean the channel on them is to remove the lock and liner. You then have access to the whole thing.

 

[patriot59]

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your PA. I have had two of them by Traditions, first I traded off, the second I re-worked to my satisfaction.
It still has the original lock, but I replaced the sights, reconfigured the comb of the buttstock, stripped and refinished the stock, relived the forward edge of the pan so touch hole is centered, enlarged the touch hole and reamed the breech plug. This gun is now one of my favorite flinters to shoot. Ignition is ligthning fast. Sounds like a lot of work but it was worth it.

About the breechplug. It seems that these guns were manufactured towards being overly strong. The breechplug is much longer than need be, setting up a situation of moving the main charge away from the prime. Had this plug reamed back to the touch hole by the professionals at the Log Cabin Shop, took a few minutes and I was back on the firing line.

I load 3f as main charge and 3f as prime, this gun fires if I think about it.

 

[PA16th]

I knew of several people with the same problem.
You may not be getting enough spark. Their frizzens are not very hard. Try dry firing in a dark room (NO POWDER NEEDED) you should see more than a few sparks. If not, replace frizzen with a harder one and you might be surprised of the results. This is a simple fix before you replace the more $$$$$$$$$$$ parts.

 

[torn moc]

I have some KASENIT .This will harden your Frizzen! PM me if ya need some and I will give ya the details... :thumbsup:

 

[6mmppc]

You might want to rethink using the 1/8" drill bit, that is .125 inch and I would think way oversize! In my opinion a 5/64" (.078") is oversize also!
Dennis

 

[tr07416]

I finally located a set of numbered drill bits from a friend. Forget about Home Depot, Lowes,
and Sears Hardware, they didn't carry them. Drilled out the vent liner with a #50. The results were better when I tested it today,only two misfires out of the first ten shots. Numbers
11 & 12 were also misfires, but I noticed that the pan didn't flash on #12 and when I checked the flint there was a big chip out of it. I suspect thats what happened on #11 too and I
didn't realize it. Replaced the flint, and just enjoyed shooting and concentrated more on sighting it in. It flashed in the pan a few more times, but was much more consistant. Any thoughts on drilling it out one more time with a #49? I would still be under 5/64ths.
TR

 

[Shifty]

Read the article in the jan/feb issue of Muzzleloader Mag by John Rhodes ( Cabelas"Blue Ridge" Rifle by Pedersoli) you may get some ideas there.

 

[tr07416]

12 out of 12! YES!

Drilling out the vent liner with a #49 bit seemed to do the trick. I probably shot a few dozen rounds today altogether, and I did have a few misfires right before I changed the flint, but overall, I'm happy about the way my Traditions PA Rifle performed. Especially considering I couldn't even get it to fire at all when I first got it. I tried picking the vent alot less and only swabbing out the barrel a few times. I also forgot about fussing with the powder amount and placement in the pan. After it started firing consistantly, I just primed it until the powder looked about right and fired it off. I then concentrated on ignoring the flash and holding the front sight on target after I fired.(follow-through?)Funny how the shot actually goes where you point it when you do that.

Anyway, thanks again for all the pointers and encouragement.
TR