Triple Seven

[Josh Smith]

When I got my first muzzleloader, a CVA Bobcat, I also purchased Shockey's Gold sticks.

They ignited easily -- IF I mashed 'em up in the tube. I understand they sell loose powder as well.

I found that it was reasonably accurate for plinking and cleaned up well.

It's a bit less powerful than 2Fg.

Haven't tried Triple Se7en, but may if it gets hard to find real black.

Josh

 

[majg1234]

I've used 777, Pyrodex (some call it crapodex) and black powder,over the 30+ years i've been shooting ML sidelocks,Inlines(sorry) and now flinters,got into pyrodex when I could not find BP anywhere when I lived in another area.Now because of the availability of the powder (holy black) through internet etc I'll shoot only BP,777 does leave a bear of a crud ring pellets were inconsistant in standard deviations,pyrodex seems to me to be harder to clean,Holy Black does stink but cleans the easiest and stores well and with my chronograph and careful observation I can duplicate any load I need for any of my "front stuffers" everyone can try what they like and settle on what serves them best for me that'll be BP untill I'm forced to use something else :wink:

 

[CharlesZ]

I shoot minie's almost exclusively. T7 wouldn't adversely effect the skirt, would it? What about lube? Think I'll just proceed the same as with BP.
I have no problem with BP but I'll give T7 a try just for the helluvit.

 

[David W.]

I shoot minie's almost exclusively. T7 wouldn't adversely effect the skirt, would it? What about lube? Think I'll just proceed the same as with BP.
I have no problem with BP but I'll give T7 a try just for the helluvit.

Velocity is the only thing that will affect a minie. Charges that are too heavy will affect the skirt no matter what the propellent is. I use the improved minie in my .58, so the skirt is not disturbed on heavy loads.

 

[shmrck1]

There is no substitute for Black powder...

Thank you very much :thumbsup: There for a momment
I thought I was on another forum.... :hmm:

 

[David W.]

There is no substitute for Black powder...

Thank you very much :thumbsup: There for a momment
I thought I was on another forum.... :hmm:

I agree with that! :thumbsup: I have seen 777 on the shelf, heard about the crud ring, reported ignition problems, and locally the price is about $29 for a container.

Doesn't a container of 777 weigh in at 10 oz? Man, that would make it really expensive.

 

[JMinnerath]

Why all this skating around what 777 or any of the other similar stuff is?
It's a substitute for black powder, pure and simple.
Not as nice to use, but in a pinch it'll get you by.
Like most places, 777 is the highest priced of the substitutes available, but one of these days I'm going to buy a pound just to try it out.

 

[majg1234]

As long as you can find BP don't waste your time or $$$$

 

[JMinnerath]

Why not?
If you haven't tried everything available personally, then you can't comment about it one way or the other.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Blackhorn 209 is the most expensive sub at $31-$38 for 10oz. Next in line is T7.

I have a long list of reasons I don't like subs, but one of them is the recoil. BP has a nice push that actually feels nice. Subs have a sharp hit. Sort of like smokeless powder.

BP also flows like salt too. Good luck with the subs. They flow like kitty litter.

 

[majg1234]

Not to get into a long P****** match in previous postings I outlined my experiances with 777.Pyrodex and BP over 30+ years of shooting muzzleloaders. I have used them all rather extensively and finally decided that BP is the best for me as long as I can get it,it is economical and suits me well for all my front stuffers as previously posted

 

[Herb]

Capper, you said in the Pyrodex string, page 1, 11/20/10, "I pay $111 for 5 lbs shipped to my door in 3 days." So if you get a case at $14 per pound, your cost is 16 cents per shot or $16 a hundred. So would 4 cents per shot more for Triple 7 cause anyone to quit shooting MLs? As for T7 clumping and "going bad", I suggest you re-read that 6 page string that you contributed so much to.

Hogghead- I did not aim any of that post at you. Your crud ring was in rifles "not to be described in this forum". In my use of between 6 and 10 pounds of Pyrodex P, RS, and Triple 7 2F and 3F in about 3 dozen rifles, probably half of them flintlocks, I have never had this, even with no wiping between shots for 20 to 40 shots. It clumped for you, but I haven't had it, and my T7 is now 9 years old, some opened that long ago.

Paul- others should go back and re-read the Pyrodex string and the part about magnum caps. You worded your post very carefully and it is honest and accurate, a good post, even if it doesn't contribute much. For example, T7 may deteriorate over time. But mine is 9 years old and just fine.

Flintlock62- Triple 7 comes in one pound containers.

Capper- Pyrodex RS, especially, "flows like kitty litter", you are right, and that is the problem. Most of you are shooting modern mass-produced rifles with patent (hooked) breechs. That light, fluffy RS bridges at the powder chamber and does not get down to the cap or priming flame. Swiss 1 1/2 and 2 also bridge. What powder chamber? Look into your barrel with a good light and see that small hole in the breech. Take a 3/8" wooden dowel, sharpen one end to a 1" long taper, 1/4" at the end. Put that in the bore and try to turn it into the powder chamber. Pull the dowel out and the marked ring shows the diameter of that chamber. It probably is 1/4 to 5/16" (.250 or .312") even if your bore is .50 or .54". Powder bridges there and does not get down to the ignition flame.

Drum and nipple caplocks do not have this problem as Snowdragon said above. And traditional flintlocks, without the patent breech but a flash hole drilled into the side of the barrel, do not have this problem. Using the 5-grain black powder ignition booster charge, as Pyrodex recommends, and black prime, I flatly say that Pyrodex P, Rs and Triple 7 loose powder (not pellets) are 100 percent reliable in flintlocks. I would trust this combination to hunt elk or bears with, though of course I would use black just for the tradition of it.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I've had great luck with Triple Seven 2F in my TC Hawken rifles. Shelf life is good also if properly stored. I'm not a fan of American Pioneer powders, but they will work if it's all you can find. I like Goex 3F in my small caliber rifles. I shoot a little of everything in my TC 45 cal Hawken rifle to include Goex 2F & 3F. However when it is time to go hunting I reach for Triple Seven in either my 50's or 54. No need to bad mouth the Subs as they have a place in things and can at times be all you can find.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I did answer you in the other thread Herb.

I do have to disagree with you on one point. Swiss powder is a beautiful powder with nice rounded polished grains. It flows better than any sub powder I've seen, and I've tried them all.

 

[Herb]

Swiss is great powder, but Swiss 1 1/2 and 2 will bridge in a patent breech. Swiss 3 will flow right out of a large flash hole (5/64" or larger) and should never be a problem in a patent breech. It also does not settle in a powder measure, whereas Pyrodex RS can be tapped to settle maybe 10 grains in an 80 grain measure (just guessing, don't have it before me).

 

[Herb]

These are some rifles I built. The third one down is a copy of a Christian Hawken caplock, .54 caliber 42" Green Mtn barrel,Siler caplock. Can't find a single photo now. I used CCI #11 caps to test Triple 7 3F and 2F on May 20,2002.

Hodgdon's "Basic Muzzleloading Manual" for a .54 caliber patched roundball, .530 and .020 Ox-Yoke patch shows: 80 grains, 1667 fps. 90 grains 1775 fps. 100 grains, 1846 fps. 120 grains 1943 fps. They use 120 grains with the conicals up to 425 grains. So I tried these loads in the C. Hawken rifle, using pillow ticking and leather over powder wads. Shot at 50 yards over a chronograph, testing different target shapes.

Top left, 80 grains of T7 2F, first shot with clean bore is low in velocity, mean of 5 is 1810, extreme spread is 163, without first shot, 1840/33. Second, 90 T7 2F, 1946/71. Patch blew on 2nd shot then I went to OPwads. W/O #2, 1956/49 fps. Third, 100 gr T7 2F, 2048/45. Fourth (top right). 110 gr T7 2F, 2161/41. Then Bottom RIGHT, 120 gr T7 2F,2238 fps, 58 spread.

Bottom left, shot after the 120 gr load with no wiping or cleaning at all in this test, first shot out at 9 oclock, apparently a torn patch. 40 grains of T7 3F (Three F now). 1428 fps, 117 spread, but exclude shot 1 and it is 1445/108. Fifth shot was also way slow. Second over, 80 gr T7 3F, 1960/60. Third over (but shot second in 3F order), 60 gr T7 3F, 1698/96.

These velocities astounded me, being about 200 fps over what Hodgdon published, so I phoned Chris Hodgdon to discuss them, thinking perhaps the 110 and 120 grain loads were way too high in pressure. He said "Well, you don't get something for nothing", whatever that means. So, Triple 7 does develop much higher velocity than Goex black powder. I do not use these heavy loads, but this is info that some might find useful.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Not interested in any sugar based powders Herb. No matter how well they work.

Try Blackhorn 209. It works even better than T7. If you can get it to fire. :wink:

I like my weak cheap dirty smelly black powder. :grin:

 

[hoochiepapa]

Herb, not only do you build great looking rifles, you're a good shot, too. :v

 

[shootemup]

Herb, not only do you build great looking rifles, you're a good shot, too. :v

I was thinking that, and he does his homework too. :grin:

 

[ebiggs1]

I think buying all these subs hurts the real black powder sales. Everybody should buy and use real black powder and maybe it would become easier to get.
All the hooey about them is just that hooey. Every one I have tried works and works fine but they ain't real black powder. So come on people buy real black powder!