Uberti deceiving arbor fit

[Smokerr]

Walker with a fitted arbor and tight wedge. 44g of FFFg. BTW, the Remington's grouping was improved by reaming the cylinder chambers .004"

Very impressive groups

 

[Smokerr]

I've known steel cleaning rod "wear" effects accuracy as I have re-crowned two personal scoped hunting rifles after some years of on protected cleaning rod wear and seen the accuracy perk up on both after the re-crown work.

And I have seen test of people smashing the bore and accuracy was still good.

Note the "seen" in there - what was the original load and accuracy and what was the accuracy with the same load after? . Perked up is not a fact, its an opinion.

So, give us a powder and weighted gr load in your Uberti with what bullet you shoot and give us 1500 shots.

Then tell us how things are going.

 

[M. De Land]

If it didn't matter, why install a staking pin?

Incredible

Mike

The pin is to insure the arbor does not back out of the frame thread not to make the joint rigid.

 

[45D]

The pin is to insure the arbor does not back out of the frame thread . . .

So that it won't get loose .

Just the fact that the wedge is inserted in the assembly would keep the arbor from backing out of the frame.

Mike

 

[RMFnLA]

I'm pretty sure I recently told the story of my Walkers barrel going down range . . . because the wedge worked its way out . . . Do you really think a loose arbor (which would allow the wedge to be loose from shot to shot ) wouldn't lead to bad things?
You've got your Walker, maybe you could run some tests?
Me, I'm going to continue what I've been doing, I enjoy shooting heavy loads in tight revolvers . . . that STAY tight!!

Mike

Seems to me installing the wedge would pull the Arbor tight.

Am I missing something?

(Wouldn’t be the first time. )

 

[45D]

Seems to me installing the wedge would pull the Arbor tight.

Am I missing something?

(Wouldn’t be the first time. )

Well, you'd think so but let's see how this plays out . . .

If the wedge is in tight ( like it's supposed to be), the cylinder won't turn (arbor is short). Answer- back the wedge out some - now cylinder moves! Problem solved? NO, new Problem exists. The wedge is now loose . . . which means the barrel assy is loose . . . Now the 60gr charges can beat the wedge up because it's trapped between two assemblies that move at different rates ( imagine if you had a loose arbor as well !)!
In the case of my Walker, the wedge was walking out the more I shot - it's a WEDGE . . . why wouldn't it? Finally it clears the slot and the barrel goes down range.

So, you're exactly right, a tight wedge would be the answer but . . . the arbor is short, so you'll need to . . .

Actually, you need an as "originaly designed" revolver and you won't have any issues.

Mike

 

[45D]

Just for S's and Giggles, here is me shooting the very Walker I've been talking about!! Yes, that's a Remington on my left. This would be about 1986! ( notice the cool "Members Only" jacket!!! ).

Mike

 

[RMFnLA]

Well, you'd think so but let's see how this plays out . . .

If the wedge is in tight ( like it's supposed to be), the cylinder won't turn (arbor is short). Answer- back the wedge out some - now cylinder moves! Problem solved? NO, new Problem exists. The wedge is now loose . . . which means the barrel assy is loose . . . Now the 60gr charges can beat the wedge up because it's trapped between two assemblies that move at different rates ( imagine if you had a loose arbor as well !)!
In the case of my Walker, the wedge was walking out the more I shot - it's a WEDGE . . . why wouldn't it? Finally it clears the slot and the barrel goes down range.

So, you're exactly right, a tight wedge would be the answer but . . . the arbor is short, so you'll need to . . .

Actually, you need an as "originaly designed" revolver and you won't have any issues.

Mike

Ah, got it.

I wasn’t taking into account the need for the cylinder to turn.

Thanks!

 

[M. De Land]

So that it won't get loose .

Just the fact that the wedge is inserted in the assembly would keep the arbor from backing out of the frame.

Mike

You apparently have no understanding of lathe cut thread fitting or how they load and slack in them from loose fit and tension stretch. An arbor that wiggles slightly has almost no lengthening to it in relation to the wedge draw, It simply means the threads have leveled out and seated in relation to the slack that is cut into them.
If one drives an over size thread lock pin into a sloppy thread fit the result is to wedge the arbor off center. The pin is designed to block rotation not stiffen the thread joint. Good thread fitting stiffens the joint and maintains arbor center in it's frame hole.
What I'm questioning is if loose fitting thread slack progresses or stabilizes at some point. I'm fielding a question in my mind if a slightly loose arbor is the boogy man often thought it is. It's commonly called thinking out side the box.

 

[45D]

Ah, got it.

I wasn’t taking into account the need for the cylinder to turn.

Thanks!

Yeah, that's a prerequisite for a "Revolver".

You apparently have no understanding of lathe cut thread fitting or how they load and slack in them from loose fit and tension stretch. An arbor that wiggles slightly has almost no lengthening to it in relation to the wedge draw, It simply means the threads have leveled out and seated in relation to the slack that is cut into them.
If one drives an over size thread lock pin into a sloppy thread fit the result is to wedge the arbor off center. The pin is designed to block rotation not stiffen the thread joint. Good thread fitting stiffens the joint and maintains arbor center in it's frame hole.
What I'm questioning is if loose fitting slack progresses or stabilizes at some point. I'm fielding a question in my mind if a slightly loose arbor is the boogy man often thought it is. It's commonly called thinking out side the box.

Yeah apparently, but upsetting the shoulder has worked fine for me thus far. I've successfully been able to get +p ammo down range with absolutely no problem at all.

Shooting +p ammo IS "thinking outside the box"!

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

Seems to me installing the wedge would pull the Arbor tight.

Am I missing something?

(Wouldn’t be the first time. )

Yeah, that's a prerequisite for a "Revolver".



Yeah apparently, but upsetting the shoulder has worked fine for me thus far. I've successfully been able to get +p ammo down range with absolutely no problem at all.

Shooting +p ammo IS "thinking outside the box"!

Mike

Tell me again how you managed to blow off your Walker barrel and send it down range !

 

[45D]

Tell me again how you managed to blow off your Walker barrel and send it down range !

Ummmmm. . . . 60gr charges, a revolver with a short arbor, . . .

Mike

 

[springfield art]

When and how will the factory get the message and this all becomes a bad dream?

 

[45D]

When and how will the factory get the message and this all becomes a bad dream?

Who knows? Tell um!!

Funny thing is, it's not a "bad dream" it's just too much "faith" in an Italian company that makes reproductions of an American item along with folks that don't want to accept that their products aren't "exact" reproductions!
Then if anyone points out any problem with the repro, the Italians are right and "we" don't know what we're talking about!!
Naysayers will defend the reproductions at GREAT LENGTH and basically demand PROOF that we're right and they're wrong!! Not to mention dreaming up every conceivable reason why "they" are right and "originals" in hand don't mean a freekin thing!!

Mike

 

[Smokerr]

Just for S's and Giggles, here is me shooting the very Walker I've been talking about!! Yes, that's a Remington on my left. This would be about 1986! ( notice the cool "Members Only" jacket!!!

Now that is iconic and a treat to see.

Some people do not get that loose does not just stay loose. It gets looser and looser because its hammering away at the surfaces.

But then you have a guy who says the lands get peened over and its an issue. Any loose part under force is going to peen over and eventually its going to fail. Your .020 becomes .025 and .030 and then there is enough movement that it rips out of the gun.

Now let me tell you about a force factor that was stunning. I did a fix for a guy on a motor home, he had backed into a yard with fence wire on the ground and it wrapped around the axle (and he did know know it)

He is blissfully going to his Curling session and the motor home goes black and stays black. Yea it got ahold of the electrical wires and ripped them out, nothing surprising there. A mess to fix but straight forward.

Well in cleaning up that mess its, what is this pipe dangling down here? Hmmm, propane feed to the stove and fridge (or used to be). It ripped the pipe right out of the threads on one joint. And that was a tight system with no give but the contact on the threads was low enough to do that. I would never have dreamed you could rip a threaded pipe out like that.

And what does the Arbor have? Ooops, threads. What is the firing pressure? You don't think if its loose it will not rip out of the frame?

Yea, it will get progressively worse until it fails.

 

[M. De Land]

Ummmmm. . . . 60gr charges, a revolver with a short arbor, . . .

Mike

So you didn't notice the wedge backing out or did it take the end of the arbor off ?

 

[M. De Land]

Ummmmm. . . . 60gr charges, a revolver with a short arbor, . . .

Mike

Huh, never experienced or heard of it happening before. Actually I've never had a wedge back out on me either short arbor or not . I'll be looking for it on my Walker !

 

[M. De Land]

Now that is iconic and a treat to see.

Some people do not get that loose does not just stay loose. It gets looser and looser because its hammering away at the surfaces.

But then you have a guy who says the lands get peened over and its an issue. Any loose part under force is going to peen over and eventually its going to fail. Your .020 becomes .025 and .030 and then there is enough movement that it rips out of the gun.

Now let me tell you about a force factor that was stunning. I did a fix for a guy on a motor home, he had backed into a yard with fence wire on the ground and it wrapped around the axle (and he did know know it)

He is blissfully going to his Curling session and the motor home goes black and stays black. Yea it got ahold of the electrical wires and ripped them out, nothing surprising there. A mess to fix but straight forward.

Well in cleaning up that mess its, what is this pipe dangling down here? Hmmm, propane feed to the stove and fridge (or used to be). It ripped the pipe right out of the threads on one joint. And that was a tight system with no give but the contact on the threads was low enough to do that. I would never have dreamed you could rip a threaded pipe out like that.

And what does the Arbor have? Ooops, threads. What is the firing pressure? You don't think if its loose it will not rip out of the frame?

Yea, it will get progressively worse until it fails.

Well your opinion is great theory and perhaps true but then again it is only backed by your speculation when compared to motor home repair!
As for me I'm just not sure a slightly loose arbor in a steel frame gun is going to progressively loosen or that it causes inaccuracy.
I've lathe threaded and fit "A LOT" of rifle and pistol barrels over the last 45 years , some of them take down gun barrels that will slightly move in their locked at battery positions and they don't stretch or elongate in their head spacing once the threads seat themselves. High Power rifles operate at several times the pressure our percussion open frame guns do and once the threads mate they don't lengthen any more. Any loosening is from rotation wear in the threads from frequent removal which is not happening to an arbor.
My experience from actual barrel fitting tells me the same will most likely hold true with arbor threads that move a bit in steel frame guns.
Take off barrels are used on match rifles (Stevens take down 44 1/2) and they never are as rigidly fit as standard threaded barrels are but the accuracy remains. My experience backed educated guess is the same is true of arbors that are not perfectly solid in their threaded seats in steel frame guns.

 

[Tenring]

When and how will the factory get the message and this all becomes a bad dream?

If you talk to Rick at Stoeger he has conversations with the Italians a lot of the time because he apparently is in QC and he has to be in contact with them a lot, My Colt .36 years ago was a problem and he went right to Uberti over seas and got the answers I was needing. Stoeger Company importers are really easy to talk to and there super flexible about parts your needing I received just about everything I ever needed replaced they just can’t do a Frame Doug told me.

 

[45D]

So you didn't notice the wedge backing out or did it take the end of the arbor off ?

Huh, never experienced or heard of it happening before. Actually I've never had a wedge back out on me either short arbor or not . I'll be looking for it on my Walker !

Didn't notice. I was just a shooter back then. Oh, the arbor end was still there.
Your Walker should be fine since you fixed it. There's a pic of an 1860 barrel going down range at a Cowboy Match a few years ago. It made the rounds for a while and was a good topic for the "thumb pressure" argument.

Mike