Ultimate effect of how hard a charge/projectile is rammed?

[jamesthomas]

No need to snipe, Please do it via P.T. if you must. Thank you.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Exactly the point I was making...he has me PT blocked and resorts to public sniping. :td:

 

[longcruise]

I didn't miss that at all. Simply stating that we have different definitions of a pellet says little if anything of relevance to my post.

What you posted is an observation. What's missing is explanation of what you mean.

My interest is in the results of compressing powder much more than is typically done with a range rod. Higher up in this thread you posted several good ideas for achieving that, but now you seem to have gotten past that period of constructive thinking :haha:

 

[roundball]

Black powder cartridges loaded with compression as the 45-70 govt cartridges were do form a pellet. Removing it from the case can be a matter of gouging it out. However, the powder does not burn as you describe.

Marmotslayer,You are correct. I have used a compression die to do what you described, and it did compress the powder to a pellet. It did not harm the brass container. (Carefully worded to avoid the mention of items that should not be discussed here.)Regards,Pletch

FYI...as I'd mentioned, its not uncommon for me to pull a PRB then blow out the powder charge with my air compressor to find a "powder pellet" as a result. Just unloaded / reloaded my 28ga Early Virginia for tomorrow's Turkey hunt and this is the 90grn Goex 3F pellet that popped into the trash can..."clunk"...didn't even break apart.

 

[longcruise]

wow! What happens when you do that with a rifled barrel?

Good luck on the turkeys. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

wow! What happens when you do that with a rifled barrel? Good luck on the turkeys. :thumbsup:

Good question...I never really paid it any attention and alternate rifles & smoothbores with PRBs often enough that I can't state factually one way or the other so I won't. If I had to 'guess', I'd guess rifling would break it up...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think you'd need a brass rammer to get that level of compression. ;-)

Don't recall ever having powder that much pelletized - but I do have to go in with a screw and scraper to get the crumbs out. Usually the majority pours out.

But then I am lenient with with my wood rammers when setting loads, as I try to keep them for the life of the rifle or smoothbore.

 

[roundball]

Mine are very strong brass and I do lean on them...at least there's not much left in question about my shot to shot consistency with seating pressure
:wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

It looks damp to me. :haha:

 

[bpd303]

Here is a 100 year old original cartridge that I pulled the bullet from. The powder was not compressed into a pill. Once I removed the over powder card the powder poured out of the case as seen in the photo. I think possibly the lube used in Roundball's load contributed to the pelleting.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Roundball's powder looks like Pyrodex........that stuff is notorious for clumping.


I wonder what the ball looked like.... :hmm:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Is the powder graphite coated ???

One would think that graphite coated powder would resist clumping. :hmm: Thought that's why they added it....

Roundball, if you give me the test parameters I will be happy to duplicate the test.

 

[azmntman]

Told this before but I once got distracted loading and shooting a 12GA and had forgot the over powder card so I dumped the load in a trash can whilst continuing to jabber. I heard the shot pour out. I then reloaded and when my rather large sized gunsmith buddy shot that one he was down rolling in the fetal position hollering "I don't do Recoil!" He still thinks I did it on purpose. Point is the powder was compressed enough not to come out and he shot 180 gr 3f and a large load of #6. So I'm guessing it can and does compress some times. No lube involved here either? And that was Goex not Pyro

 

[coloradoclyde]

If you go back and read my posts...

But we can start with this from Greenjoytj

With enough compression you woul turn 2f a solid pellet.
BP burn from the out side surface into the center.
That would be a real slow burning pellet.
Canon grade.

and then where I said;
Actually... .... the pressure required to form a pellet would crinkle or buckle a 45-70 case. Actually it would do far worse..

Have you never pulled a ball from a muzzleloader and then had to dig the powder out????? because it was compressed in the breech
That is the same compression as your 45-70....if it was compressed like a pellet it would be extracted as a single unit.

Now to eliminate further confusion...compressing or packing powder by hand will never create a SOLID pellet.
It creates a clump of powder.
I said before.....different definitions.

To form a solid pellet would require the powder being moistened into a slurry and formed.... or by adding a binder and compressing with more force than can be achieved by hand.

Now we can argue about clumps and pellets all day but the true distinction between a solid pellet and a clump is the rate at which they burn.

If you still don't believe me just try to make a model rocket engine by compressing the powder.
it will do the same thing it does in your gun....KABOOM!

 

[azmntman]

Then why didnt it come out?

 

[roundball]

Black powder cartridges loaded with compression as the 45-70 govt cartridges were do form a pellet. Removing it from the case can be a matter of gouging it out. However, the powder does not burn as you describe.

Marmotslayer,You are correct. I have used a compression die to do what you described, and it did compress the powder to a pellet. It did not harm the brass container. (Carefully worded to avoid the mention of items that should not be discussed here.)Regards,Pletch

FYI...as I'd mentioned, its not uncommon for me to pull a PRB then blow out the powder charge with my air compressor to find a "powder pellet" as a result. Just unloaded / reloaded my 28ga Early Virginia for tomorrow's Turkey hunt and this is the 90grn Goex 3F pellet that popped into the trash can..."clunk"...didn't even break apart.

FYI...unloaded the 28ga again after a Turkey hunt and got the same result.