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Ultimate Range of Round Balls

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I realize that round balls are not bullets, etc. I remember reading about a guy shooting a 50-90 and the bullet traveled 3 miles (or something similar) Billy Dixon fired a big 50 in 1872 and the bullet went 7/8 of a mile and may have struck the brave he was aiming at. (Quannah Parker said it riccocheted off a rock to hit the brave.) Whether the wind is with you or against you, spin etc, I would think may well extend the range and drop by a substantial distance.
 
"Ok, how far will they "skip"? They gotta loose energy pretty quickly bouncing on the ground....."

I dunno Mike if ol' Wallace would have shot one at 37.5 degrees back in 1969 I'd bet it would still be bouncin' along..... somewhere in Virginia... :hmm:
 
A bullet/ball that ricochets will lose much of it's energy and ability to kill. With modern jacketed bullets this is not a real problem. With pure lead projectiles, it is. A lead projectile will deform at low velocity and flatten or spatter up close. This will cause the projectile to fall to the ground or at least bounce off somewhere. With this in mind, the shot Billy made targeted and hit the horse mounted chief full on. The chief was on a horse, on a rise and not cowering behind rocks. Billy was the king of lucky shots and the Indian was the king of bad luck.
 
I dunno Mike if ol' Wallace would have shot one at 37.5 degrees back in 1969 I'd bet it would still be bouncin' along..... somewhere in Virginia...
No doubt about that! :rotf:
 
J.D. said:
ozark57 said:
Ok, So what I gather from Journee's table is that a .350 rb can travel 770 yards with the bbl. at a firing angle of +40 degrees. I am actualy shooting down at an angle of aprox. 3 degrees with the ball striking the ground at about 80 yards. Most ball will cut a groove along the surface of the ground , I've noticed, and if they should "skip" the closest thing is a road at 800 yards in that direction. With soft lead balls, undoubtably deforming from impact, and the range being what it is, I conclude that my front porch shooting is safe with a .32 or .36. With the ultimate range of a .50 being 1100 yards, this would be potentialy dangerous.
Anyone see any flaws in this conclusion?

If you are concerned that one will get away, you could put a coupla big round bales of hay on your range, as a backstop. IMHO, it's cheap insurance.

God bless
I have never tried.....Can you shoot through a big round hay bale with a muzzleloading rifle?
 
Mike Brooks said:
I have never tried.....Can you shoot through a big round hay bale with a muzzleloading rifle?

Ooooh, I'm in Minn, so I know what your talkin about with "big round bails"
And ya know, I doubt it! I don't think you could stand next to a tight bail off a good working machine, even one seasoned a few years, and put one through, might be a bit worried of startin one on fire, but I don't think any projectile would go through. That's hay not straw.
BUT, I'd NOT be willing to stand on the opposite side to prove it :haha:
 
Stake a sheet of butcher paper on the other side of a hay bale or two, and fire away. No reason NOT to know how adequate your backstop will be.

When my club set up temporary ranges for demonstrations in various towns, we tried to get old Railroad ties to use as a backstop. However, there are always gaps between the logs, and some of the old ties can be " spongy" if sitting on the ground for any length of time. That created TWO security/safety issues for us to solve:

1. Light loads( from pistols and revolvers mostly,) would BOUNCE back off the tough, creosote filled, but soft ties;

2. occasionally a ball would get through a "gap" in the logs.

We solved the first problem by using a 1/4" thick sheet of plywood, 4' x 8', to place in front of the RR ties, to act as a back splash board. We mounted targets on the plywood panel. We also BANNED the shooting of pistols at these demonstrations( but not at the club range.)

We solved the second by using a double stack of ties when enough were available, and by using bales of hay behind the ties when they weren't. We often put two rows of bales behind the ties.

Finally, we mounted our targets just up off the ground, so that we were shooting Down- not horizontal, or up on the backstops. This made the ground under the RR ties receive a lot of the PRBs we fired in demonstration.

I am sure that a large enough caliber RB can be pushed with enough powder to make it through a couple of bales of hay, some of the time. I don't want to be the "volunteer" to shoot that gun, however, as My shoulders aren't what they used to be! :( :shocked2: :rotf: :hmm: We did NOT allow heavy loads to be used at our demonstrations for any shooting. The range was short, because our audience had to stand behind the shooters, and they needed to see our targets clearly to see what we were shooting.

Even 25 yds. is a long distance to spectators. We used a lot of Breakable targets at the demonstrations, usually clay pigeons. They were easy to see, and easy to see break from the spectators Point of View. They were easy targets to hit, so we would first shoot the centers out of the clays, then shoot any portion of the outer "ring" of the clay, letting the audience pick an " Hour" on a clock for us to hit. It gave us more of a challenge, and kept us from being bored.

We tried other small targets, BTW, but while we were having fun shooting beer bottle caps, or one inch diameter wafers of wood cut from an old pole, the spectators could not see what we were shooting at, or if we hit any of them! :shocked2: :confused: We did hang balloons, and even Empty egg shells to shoot, because they offered such a visible target to the audiences. We also snuffed candles at night shoots, split the ball on the edge of an axe to break two clays at once, and even split playing cards on edge for the audiences. ( See my article on Off-hand and Trick Shooting, under " articles" on the index page to this forum for more details.) We had to place the stake for the card splitting no more than 20 feet from the shooters, so that the audience could even see the playing card on the stake! The Candles were back at 50 feet, and the Axe was put where it was safest to shoot, regardless of yardage. Sometimes that had to be as close as 10 feet, but usually we placed it at 25-30 feet- again, because spectators complained that they could not see the axe in the stump at further distances, even with two blaze orange clay pigeons resting against, one on each side of, the axe.

We had many club members who did not know how to sight the axe, or the edge of the card, or the candles, to hit them, and were easily discouraged, even when the targets were at close range. We altered the distance at the club for these "novelty shoots", so that the new shooters could learn the "tricks" up close, before we moved everyone back to 25 yards to make it truly competitive.

There is No POINT putting on a "show" if your audience can't see what you are shooting, NO??? :hmm: And, if you can't hit a target, the audience is not interested in waiting for you to learn, thanks to TV. :redface: :bow:

Some members of the audience wanted to keep the outer ring as a souvenir- okay by us. For some reason, young girls wanted to wear them as wrist bands. We cautioned them about the toxic pitch contained in the clay, and instructed them to wash their hands and wrist vigorously with soap and water when they took the ring off. :v
 
Mike Brooks said:
J.D. said:
If you are concerned that one will get away, you could put a coupla big round bales of hay on your range, as a backstop. IMHO, it's cheap insurance.

God bless
I have never tried.....Can you shoot through a big round hay bale with a muzzleloading rifle?

Not to my knowledge, though I personally haven't tried them for backstops. The formerly local ML club uses the large bales as backstops for its shoots. They say that the balls stop in a very short distance, like a foot or less, especially if the bale is packed pretty hard. They shoot into the flat ends of the bales, BTW.

An acquaintance shoots high power rifles into the large bales. He says that soft points won't penetrate, but military ball will. I seem to remember him saying that bales oriented one way will allow a softpoint to pass through, but not the other way. Don't remember which orientation will stop the high power rounds though.

I do know from experience that arrows with field tips, shot from 60# draw weight longbows, will only penetrate a few inches into hard packed bales.

Someone who farms once posted on one forum or another, that he shoots into the bales he feeds to his cattle. He reported that the cattle eat around the balls, which fall to the ground as the cattle eat through a bale. Dunno if I would do that, but by all accounts, the large bales do make good backstops for RB and modern pistol bullets.


So, I guess the only way to find out is to try it and see for yourself. I'm sure that a large piece of cardboard pinned to the back of the bale will show any rounds that make it through.

I'm sure that someone up there in Iowa has a bale they will let you shoot into to try 'em out. Might have to trade a chicken for the opportunity though. :grin:

One of the boys that runs with Duane Hartwig farms in your area. Might get with Duane to arrange for an afternoon get together to see how they work. :wink:

God bless
 
Duane just came down here last week to pick up some chickens I gave him. :grin: I'll have to ask him next time he comes through.
 
The farmer I'm talking about camped with Duane and Jeff at the Ft. DeChartre trade Faire this spring.
Don't remember his name, but he was a talker. :wink:
 
zimmerstutzen said:
I realize that round balls are not bullets, etc. I remember reading about a guy shooting a 50-90 and the bullet traveled 3 miles (or something similar) Billy Dixon fired a big 50 in 1872 and the bullet went 7/8 of a mile and may have struck the brave he was aiming at. (Quannah Parker said it riccocheted off a rock to hit the brave.) Whether the wind is with you or against you, spin etc, I would think may well extend the range and drop by a substantial distance.

With a long bullet most BPCRs will shoot to 3200-3600 yards at max elevation.
There is no mention of the Billy Dixon shot until his wife published the book. Its not mentioned by Dixon or anyone else that was there or by anyone describing the fight prior to his wife publishing the book.
While it could have been done its not likely it happened without some mention of such a shot being made.
Reading "The 1874 Invasion of Montana" or "Buckskins, Buffalo Robes and Blackpowder" both by Don Weibert will be interesting to anyone interested in the use of a Sharps in the west in the 1870s.
Jack Bean actually did a shot very much like the one attributed to Billy Dixon. It was documented at the time.
See: http://powderburns.tripod.com/sharps.html
For a report of maximum range testing with the BPCR with sophisticated equipment.
Dan
 
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ozark57 said:
No bullet or ball, that I know of, will go through a good 5' round bale. Stopped my .458 Win. mag.

I would not say this until I tried some other calibers. I shot some steel jacketed solids from a 416 Rigby though 4+- feet of not very hard packed dirt in a backstop at the old Greycliff MT range. Not once but every shot I fired.
But a tight packed bale might be tougher.

Dan
 
Reply to Topic---

I remember reading many years ago that to figure the distance for bird shot, multiply its actual size (no. 6 shot is .11 inches) by 2200.
If you do this with a ,54 ball, it comes out to 1188 yards.
 
ozark57 said:
Does anyone know the ultimate range off .36 and .50 cal. RB's at maximum obtainable velocities?
There is a program for calculating that at JBM Ballistics.

For the .36 caliber, assuming a .350" ball at 2200 fps, the optimum angle is 27.5° above horizontal and the maximum range is 900 yards.

For the .50 caliber, assuming a .490" ball at 2000 fps, the optimum angle is 30° above horizontal and the maximum range is 1163 yards.

Spence
 
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