Velocity affect accuracy ?

[45man]

Twist rate is always the defining factor for the velocity needed.

 

[cjgregory]

Th

Twist rate is always the defining factor for the velocity needed.

There is some truth in that.

 

[LME]

Th

There is some truth in that.

Only with B.P.!
With modern rifles a magnum Cal. has a faster twist rate than a conventual cal. due to different powders burning at different rates. slow burn for magnums allows bullet to get faster as it travels down the barrel while gas pressure keeps building up allowing the bullet to exit the barrel at a high rate of speed.

 

[cjgregory]

Only with B.P.!
With modern rifles a magnum Cal. has a faster twist rate than a conventual cal. due to different powders burning at different rates. slow burn for magnums allows bullet to get faster as it travels down the barrel while gas pressure keeps building up allowing the bullet to exit the barrel at a high rate of speed.

True.

Only with B.P.!
With modern rifles a magnum Cal. has a faster twist rate than a conventual cal. due to different powders burning at different rates. slow burn for magnums allows bullet to get faster as it travels down the barrel while gas pressure keeps building up allowing the bullet to exit the barrel at a high rate of speed.

With my match M1’s, the barrels are twisted for my bullet length. A longer bullet requires a different twist.

I keep my bullets close to 2800 fps. My loads have not changed in three years. They are spot on. The rest is all me. Win or loose.

 

[LME]

True.

With my match M1’s, the barrels are twisted for my bullet length. A longer bullet requires a different twist.

I keep my bullets close to 2800 fps. My loads have not changed in three years. They are spot on. The rest is all me. Win or loose.

That is about normal speed for a 30 06 round. 2600 to 2800 FPS!

 

[cjgregory]

That is about normal speed for a 30 06 round. 2600 to 2800 FPS!

There’s plenty of room to drive it faster but accuracy falls off quickly. Case in point for the thread. It’s under 2800 but I don’t know exactly what it is unless I look in my log book. The last two matches were cancelled due to weather.

 

[tenngun]

Correct. The idea is to get the bullet to exit the barrel in the middle of the harmonic cycle. It takes time to work up a load, but you only have to do it once.

Hmmm.
Even the same load will have a fifty fps difference in velocity, and Swiss, GOex shutzen and graft and sons all vary in power
That makes me wonder how you can hit that sweet spot in the harmonics

 

[tenngun]

This brings up the question again. Is the bullet exiting the muzzle before or after the recoil? I would think before, otherwise, even with good recoil abilities we wouldn't be able to shoot the tight groups that are achieved today.

I think the recoil aspect is the shooters response to it
Much like the flash of a flint lock new shooters can jump off target. If one can’t handle the recoil well trigger pull can be accompanied by a flench that throws one off target

 

[andy52]

Hmmm.
Even the same load will have a fifty fps difference in velocity, and Swiss, GOex shutzen and graft and sons all vary in power
That makes me wonder how you can hit that sweet spot in the harmonics

The idea is to use the same powder and projectile, you can't work up the load and change powder or projectile in the middle of the stream

 

[tenngun]

The idea is to use the same powder and projectile, you can't work up the load and change powder or projectile in the middle of the stream

I understand that, change powder charge to find your best, change patch ball combo, till you get your best. Only change one component at a time.
Still there is enough variation in velocity I don’t know we could hit the sweet spot every time.
I wonder if the barrel vibrates the same way shot to shot, and temperature too comes to mind,
I’ve often wondered how many best loads a gun can have.

 

[andy52]

I understand that, change powder charge to find your best, change patch ball combo, till you get your best. Only change one component at a time.
Still there is enough variation in velocity I don’t know we could hit the sweet spot every time.
I wonder if the barrel vibrates the same way shot to shot, and temperature too comes to mind,
I’ve often wondered how many best loads a gun can have.

Most of what I'm talking about pertains to cartridge guns. A person could spend a lot of money finding the best load using all the combinations of powder and projectile. I generally start with a projectile suited to the task I want to perform and the powders that best suit it. Working with that premiss I load 5-grain increments beginning at the bottom and working my way up and I'm never happy until I shoot a group with all projectile holes touching at 100 yds.

 

[Wirehair]

There is sound truth in it. As a military match shooter who trains offhand with .36 caliber Pennsylvania long rifle flintlock, there are some important considerations to take into account.

Caldwell Tack Driver Filled Bag Shooting Rest​

Is a rest that only secures the rifle within the area of the action and lock area being supported. Without and tension being applied. This is good for testing loads and preparing to file your front sight to the correct elevation. NEVER support a long rifle on the barrel. Perhaps any rifle.
The long rifle was designed, rather brilliantly, to be fired accurately offhand. Thus the early invention of the swamped barrel for heavier calibers.
The stock on most any rifle is the most influential variable to the rifles accuracy as it can and will affect the harmonics. Thus we now have the modern chassis and free floating barrels.
This affects even the first shot. Contrary to popular belief.
The long rifle always shoots more accurately without supporting the barrel. For testing loads and filing your front sight, rest only back at the transition or closer to the lock. The balance point of the long rifle is its best attribute and is the true reason why it’s accurate. The rifle will shoot better than you with the right load.
Shooting it offhand is how you get good at hunting with it. Good at shooting regardless.

With even practicing twice a week you can be an expert. There is a problem with men and shooting that prevents them from becoming experts at shooting. Once they get a load and instead of concentrating on form and shooting, they start “chasing the worm”. It’s as if finding the perfect load is their most entertaining and fun challenge. Round and round they go. Instead of looking at it like an instrument of skill and hunting tool, they start viewing it as a potential “sniper” rifle. A modern day phenomenon that men have to pursue some optimum ballistic utopia. First off, you aren’t a good enough shot as you haven’t trained yourself at offhand shoot twice a week. Everything is off a bench as you continue to “chase the worm”.

My second point. If you can’t push down ten consecutive shots down your barrel, your barrel is either still rough on the inside or you tried to make a sniper rifle out of your instrument of efficiency. Your rifle.
Overly thick patches and some mythical, magical lube. Even olive oil will work or any kind of fat. I use moose milk and soak my patches or strips in it. If you have to drive your ball down the barrel, you might have gone further than you needed to get a good load. Stop supporting the barrel at the bench.
That’s my 2 cents. I’m sure there will be some that disagree with me.
If your group fits in the size of a fist from 50 to 100 yards offhand, you can kill anything. Are you shooting at horse flies?

Can you post a picture showing how you rest your rifle for load development? How a rifle rests in bags on a bench greatly influences point of impact. If you develop an accuracy load off the bench that changes (barrel harmonics) when the rifle is fired offhand, then the result is a waste of time, powder and lead (in my humble opinion).

My rifles are used for hunting and informal shooting, not competition. I'm all about accuracy and could care less about velocity. The load must be repeatable in order to learn trajectory. The point of impact off the bench must match POI from the offhand position. There enough variables in developing a patched ball accuracy load, beginning at the bench.

 

[cjgregory]

I understand that, change powder charge to find your best, change patch ball combo, till you get your best. Only change one component at a time.
Still there is enough variation in velocity I don’t know we could hit the sweet spot every time.
I wonder if the barrel vibrates the same way shot to shot, and temperature too comes to mind,
I’ve often wondered how many best loads a gun can have.

I have a question for you. I just want to know. So do you have to drive your ball down or have to use a ball starter?
Secondly, can you load subsequent shots without having to swab and clear out some fouling?

 

[cjgregory]

Can you post a picture showing how you rest your rifle for load development? How a rifle rests in bags on a bench greatly influences point of impact. If you develop an accuracy load off the bench that changes (barrel harmonics) when the rifle is fired offhand, then the result is a waste of time, powder and lead (in my humble opinion).

My rifles are used for hunting and informal shooting, not competition. I'm all about accuracy and could care less about velocity. The load must be repeatable in order to learn trajectory. The point of impact off the bench must match POI from the offhand position. There enough variables in developing a patched ball accuracy load, beginning at the bench.

I can do that today actually. I use an old picnic table on my property for just that purpose. I shoot my offhand shooting right off my back porch. You are wise to take note of the harmonics issue for developing a load or filing the front sight.

 

[tenngun]

I have a question for you. I just want to know. So do you have to drive your ball down or have to use a ball starter?
Secondly, can you load subsequent shots without having to swab and clear out some fouling?

I grew up in New Mexico and hunted in Colorado Wyoming and Utah and shot some in California while in the navy. Low humidity in those areas let me shoot as much as twenty rounds without a swab.
When I moved to the Ozarks I found five shots would get too tight to load easily.
About 2008 I took to swabbing between each shot as a general rule
A few years ago I made up a bunch of paper cartridges for my TFC and tried to see how many shots I could get off on the English time of three minutes and forty five seconds
By ten shots even my cartridges were getting slow to load, I got off thirteen shots in that time so I would be in the awkward squad
I found spit seems to be the best lube for multi shots in my neck of the woods. But swabbing between shots cost nothing and I can shoot ‘all day’
Was recently at a woods walk and was shooting my TFC with bare ball and tow as a wad on top. But even then the barre ball had to be rammed home after four or five shots and I swabbed before ten shots

 

[ernbar]

Not rifle but with my Dragoon pistol. I tried 45-50 grains compared to 40 grain charges. The lesser ones gave me greater accuracy so less can be better depending on your gun.

 

[cjgregory]

I grew up in New Mexico and hunted in Colorado Wyoming and Utah and shot some in California while in the navy. Low humidity in those areas let me shoot as much as twenty rounds without a swab.
When I moved to the Ozarks I found five shots would get too tight to load easily.
About 2008 I took to swabbing between each shot as a general rule
A few years ago I made up a bunch of paper cartridges for my TFC and tried to see how many shots I could get off on the English time of three minutes and forty five seconds
By ten shots even my cartridges were getting slow to load, I got off thirteen shots in that time so I would be in the awkward squad
I found spit seems to be the best lube for multi shots in my neck of the woods. But swabbing between shots cost nothing and I can shoot ‘all day’
Was recently at a woods walk and was shooting my TFC with bare ball and tow as a wad on top. But even then the barre ball had to be rammed home after four or five shots and I swabbed before ten shots

Understood.