W.M. Large

[RonT]

Here's the pic. I built the rifle last winter, the barrel was purchased from another ML site the year prior.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

As far as I know a "recut" is where a somehow damaged or rusted barrel is "recut"to a larger diameter. Assuming I'm correct so far, then since my barrel is a 40 could it have been recut from something like a 32 etc.? If I'm incorrect concerning the definition of "recut" I would appreciate knowing what it means.

Could be. A minimum re-cut would take the bore out to the depth of the rifling and leave it a smoothbore. Then it would be re-rifled. When re-cutting, assuming enough metal in the barrel walls, a larger bore could be chosen--like going from a . 32 caliber to a .40.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Whoever built this gun did you no favor. The maker's stamp should be on the bottom flat, not on a side flat. Its current location may cause problems for you getting it to Hit the same POI at ranges other than where its is " zeroed". Because Bill made such fine barrels, Lets hope that the run-out on this barrel is minimal, and won't give you those problems. The only way to know is to shoot the gun.

I agree with you on this. My S. Hawken built in 1972 by the late Bill (Swiftwater) Fuller (see "Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice": John D. Baird) of Cooper Landing AK, explained that Large stamped his barrels on the high side and always went on the bottom flat.

 

[shortstring]

Whoever built this gun did you no favor. The maker's stamp should be on the bottom flat, not on a side flat. Its current location may cause problems for you getting it to Hit the same POI at ranges other than where its is " zeroed". Because Bill made such fine barrels, Lets hope that the run-out on this barrel is minimal, and won't give you those problems. The only way to know is to shoot the gun.

I agree with you on this. My S. Hawken built in 1972 by the late Bill (Swiftwater) Fuller (see "Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice": John D. Baird) of Cooper Landing AK, explained that Large stamped his barrels on the high side and always went on the bottom flat.

I find this interesting as most every Large barrel I've ever seen was breeched by Large & the stamping was on the top of the barrel. (I'm sure that this fact is what provoked the response to Pauls posting about putting the name on the bottom earlier in this thread). These were mostly chunk barrels. Some people got rather mad about his stampings as he would commonly put stuff on them such as "old maids dream" or "widows prayer". He did make a bunch of barrels for the Hawkin Shop as I understand it. These had wide grooves & narrow lands cut in 48" twist. Being made for Hawken rifles it would be possible that the patent breeches were added by a builder & the name issue was addressed at that time. Even this is interesting as Bill used a planer to center the bore in the octagon from an early date.

After looking at the picture of the 72 stamped barrel I vote that it was added later. It's not centered up on the name & the stamping is much lighter than the name. IMHO the stamping would be of equal depth if the same man was running the hammer at the same time. At least it would be if that man was me.

 

[RonT]

Del, my apologies if there is a feeling of highjacking...certainly not my intent. We are talking stamp and runout, right?
Now, in the interest of curiosity I present:
My barrel was breeched when bought. It is 42", 1:42 twist, .45 cal..
The muzzle mics;
@ 12:00 - .173
@ 3:00 - .170
@ 6:00 - .172
@ 9:00 - .169
These reading were taken by me with my (ol' timey scale)Verniers, so work with me here. (25 years making welded and seamless DOM tube)
Yesseree...shody workmanship :wink:
The barrel is tapered, .871 at the breech,.810 at the muzzle.
The rear sight height measures .275, the front measures .209, 30 1/2" between.
Last thursday at Ohio Ramrods we found it to shoot ~3" high at 60 yds. with a 6:00 hold. 60 gr. 2f (that's right 2f), ~150 gr. mini.
Don, if you see this, chime in....please...
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
R

 

[Mike Brooks]

Whoever built this gun did you no favor. The maker's stamp should be on the bottom flat, not on a side flat. Its current location may cause problems for you getting it to Hit the same POI at ranges other than where its is " zeroed". Because Bill made such fine barrels, Lets hope that the run-out on this barrel is minimal, and won't give you those problems. The only way to know is to shoot the gun.

I agree with you on this. My S. Hawken built in 1972 by the late Bill (Swiftwater) Fuller (see "Hawken Rifles: The Mountain Man's Choice": John D. Baird) of Cooper Landing AK, explained that Large stamped his barrels on the high side and always went on the bottom flat.

Well, every Large barrel I have ever seen was stamped on the top left flat. I' havn't seen them all, but probably a couple dozen. :v

 

[B Shipman]

I've got two right now. Both stamped on the top left oblique flat. The few others I've seen were stamped this way as well. There is a difference between barrels as recieved and those on finished rifles. After the customer has worked on he barrel, it may no longer be Larges' original work. Prehaps they don't want the mark where it is and will rotate it to the top or bottom. The only PROOF is the barrel as recieved. All else is spurious.

 

[roger sells]

I have used three Large barrels over the years that were breeched by him and all three had his mark one flat over from the top flat on the left side of the barrel. All shot well.
Roger Sells

 

[Cutfingers]

Mine too is top left so as to easily see it when holding the piece. Are there any out there that have the "L" under the "JJJJ" stamp?

 

[Headhunter]

Here you go Boys,

This is what Mine says...

This barrel was breeched by Bill Large, Mailed to my Dad in 1981. I will call Dad, he is one of the living few that has personally talked with Bill. Dad is pretty well versed in Bill Large History. It is a Fact that the 4-J's were Bills Daughters. I will ask dad what the L means today and get back with you.

On a side note, I still have the build ticket for this barrel, and TWO MORE. A 50 and a 40. All say the same thing.

When Bill died, the J.J.J.J. came off the barrels, but the barrels still were manufactured by the business. These barrels were not as good for I have seen one unbreeched and it looked "BAD".

HH

 

[Headhunter]

Do the Bill Large 4-J barrels shoot?

I would stake my life on mine.

This target was shot with mine 60 yards offhand one shot, for a shootoff last year for the Missouri Offhand Championship.

I even called this shot "A Tad Right" after the shot. My Rifle "old Bill" hits WAY WAY more than it misses.

HH

 

[Mike Brooks]

I will call Dad, he is one of the living few that has personally talked with Bill.

That must make me older than dirt...... :shocked2:

 

[Headhunter]

Or, older than the Missouri River at LEAST!

HH

 

[TANSTAAFL]

If breeched by Bill Large, the high side was predetermined by him and he could stamp it where he pleased.

But for unbreeched barrels, it could be he stamped them on the bottom flat so the builder would know the high side.

I later gave the Hawken to my brother-in-law, I will contact him to see if he can get a photo of the stamping.

 

[Cutfingers]

Your picture with the "L" is exactly as mine and in the same place. Anxious to hear what your dad says about it.

 

[Headhunter]

I talked with him and he did not know with 100% Certainty.

Lost to history I guess.

HH

 

[DelSnavely]

Ok guys, I just got the rifle in from UPS. I spent a lot of time inspecting it and didn't have to take the lock apart to see the maker. It reads;

M. M.
Maslin
Warranted

right between the lock and the pan.

There is no lettering on the barrel, but the barrel looks very old, and at one time was completely browned, but now is patchy brown.

I'm really beginning to believe this is a pre 1964 rifle and barrel as was said in a previous post.

I just love this rifle!

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

[DelSnavely]

When I Googled "M.M. Maslin Warranted", this is what I got. Very Interesting!!!

Question:


M.M. Maslin lock, no other markings on rifle. kentucky style. gun was packed by my GG grandfather from kansas to gold fields in montana. so i am guessing the age is mid 1850s or so. i have searched extensively for info on this rifle, to no avail. who was it made for, was it a trade gun, or a ? am also assuming that the locks were purchased in a bulk fashion by gunmaker, then fitted to rifle. lock appears to have been converted to percussion at some time. any info is appreciated. laine

"Answer:

Michael M. Maslin was a lockmaker only located in Baltimore MD 1822-1833, and in Philadelphia PA to 1847. His locks were used by any number of gunmakers. I have no idea what you have without a photo or at least a description."

What are your thoughts?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Well, it's got a Bill Large barrel and a Russ Hamm lock, so it's probably from the circa 1960 era. Should have Russ Hamm's name stamped on the inside of the lock plate. Unless it has made in Spain stamped there. I can't imagine anyone building a rifle with a Wm. Large barrel and then using a CVA lock but stranger things have happened.

 

[DelSnavely]

Well with the research I've done on the lock, it looks more like someone built a rifle around a W.M. Large barrel and an original Michael M. Maslin lock.

This is a pic of the markings on the lock itself. I've been told by a gun maker that even though these locks were reproduced by Russ Hamm, CVA and others, NONE of them reproduced the lettering on the outside of the lock like this. If that's the case then, this lock was produced by Michael M. Maslin himself between 1822-1847.

You tell me.

This rifle is getting better all the time!