Weird blown patches

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I recovered a number of patches from the range today and they have a curious tendency to be split down the middle. I've seen them burnt, tattered, and otherwise chewed up where the patch is pinched between the ball and bore. But these ones are split down the middle as if it were the back of the ball.

Any thoughts on what might be causing that?

 

[russellshaffer]

By any chance are they old pre-lubed patches? A friend shot some that ended up looking like long black stringy things.

 

[bang]

How hard are they to start?
How is condition of crown and bore?
Does muzzle have start relief?
How old are patches?
Are patches lubed?
Tearing around the ball could account for either too thick and hard to start and or sharp edges at muzzle. Split behind the ball could be stress on fabric.
Pics.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I shoot pre-lubed patches and I can see how if they dried out they would break easy....

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Easy starting. bore and crown are smooth. The material is old, but it has been sitting in the closet, clean and dry. It was not exposed to lube until minutes before shooting.

 

[longcruise]

Well, somehow you are pushing the ball through the patch as you load.

This happened to me once and it turned out to be the short starter was too large in diameter and was binding the patch between the starter and the bore. The starter was pushing the ball down as it slid along the patch but the patch remained stuck to the bore and the ball was pushed through the patch.

 

[bang]

Easy starting. bore and crown are smooth. The material is old, but it has been sitting in the closet, clean and dry. It was not exposed to lube until minutes before shooting.

View attachment 69876View attachment 69877

With all else good I'd have to go with old patches.

 

[Ames]

And I was thinking not enough lube. The friction is holding the patch some allowing the ball to push through.

 

[oldwood]

Start the ball w/ the sprue up. New patching, correct thickness, thin lube

 

[Stony Broke]

It appears to me to be a coarse weave cloth and it could be separated a lot more easily than a close weave. I think if you were to go to a closer weave with a good lube, your problem would disappear.

 

[rafterob]

The material also looks to have a sheen to it. Possibly not 100% cotton and it does appear to have a loose weave.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Well, somehow you are pushing the ball through the patch as you load.

This happened to me once and it turned out to be the short starter was too large in diameter and was binding the patch between the starter and the bore. The starter was pushing the ball down as it slid along the patch but the patch remained stuck to the bore and the ball was pushed through the patch.

Longcruise is correct.
It's a pressure tear. I've had it happen when loading a tight but weak material and I've had it happen when using a undersized ball. I figure either you are pushing the ball through the patch or the pressure is trying to blow the patch past the ball and the patch isn't acting as a seal like it should.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Longcruise is correct.
It's a pressure tear. I've had it happen when loading a tight but weak material and I've had it happen when using a undersized ball. I figure either you are pushing the ball through the patch or the pressure is trying to blow the patch past the ball and the patch isn't acting as a seal like it should.

To test whether it is occuring during loading, or because pressure is trying to push the patch around the ball...I could load it with a squib load and check the patch?

 

[appalichian hunter]

I would do a normal load and then pull the ball first, inspect the patch see if it is pushing the ball through the patch at that point, if not re-load and fire the gun (use a new patch not the pulled one) find the patch and check if it happened during firing. I was going to ask about the patching material posted it looked to me coarse and shiny also. Is it 100% cotton ticking that had the sizing washed out.

 

[rrebuck]

How did they shoot? I'd think you'd really only need the patch to effectively act as a gasket between the ball and barrel. A tear in the center of the patch may not adversely affect shoots, but probably indicates your patch material is no longer up to the task.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The material should be 100% cotton, unless the bolt label was false. The coarseness could be due to it being a Walmart fabric. The shinyness is likely the neatsfoot lube. It was well-lubed.

The shooting/accuracy is peculiar. The groups are 4-5 inches at 50 yards, for a gun that normally will put them in 1.5 inches. So it is unsatisfactory, but not exactly a shotgun pattern that I typically get when blowing patches.

I will experiment to see if it splits on loading or firing. Of course, the obvious direction should be to get some other patch material.

 

[mooman76]

If you don't have allot of them where they are worth fooling with, I'd just use them for cleaning patches. Your call though.

 

[coloradoclyde]

To test whether it is occuring during loading, or because pressure is trying to push the patch around the ball...I could load it with a squib load and check the patch?

Worth a try, or you could pull a ball too, and inspect the patch.
Pegging down problems like these is nothing more than the process of elimination.

 

[ord sgt]

Well, somehow you are pushing the ball through the patch as you load.

This happened to me once and it turned out to be the short starter was too large in diameter and was binding the patch between the starter and the bore. The starter was pushing the ball down as it slid along the patch but the patch remained stuck to the bore and the ball was pushed through the patch.

I think this may very well be the problem. If the patch material is overly large and gets bunched up at the muzzle, the short starter will hold the patch while the ball is being pushed into the barrel.

 

[flintsteel]

Coning the muzzle will cure this problem. May I suggest you look under “Muzzleloader Sponser Market” and look at the muzzle coning tool. It certainly cured simliar problems I had with my rifles. And best of all, no more short starters!