What am I doing wrong?

I just got into this front loading type of shooting,So I went out and picked up 2 Lyman greatplanes rifles. one flint the other percusion. Both rifles have good accuracy with 70gr 2f swiss .498ball off a Lee mold ,and .017 patches. problem is the flintlock is very slow firing with many hangfires and misfires. using 4f Goex in the pan and I tried different flint. Im about ready to give up on the flint lock and shoot percussion only. does anyone have any other thoughts on what im doing wrong here.
anything im missing here,
hangfire

 

[No Powder]

Assuming good powder, check that the flint is pointing into the middle of the pan. I don't know how much the gun has been shot but sometimes powder cakes in the bottom of the barrel and even a bottom scraper won't get it. Try taking a corkscrew type patch poler and breaking it loose. I even know of one gun that has a better lock time with 3f. All this is assuming that the gun at one time had a good lock time. If not the lock may need to be tuned and if you have never done it have someone who has, show you the ropes. Hope something here helps. Let me know. I'm sure others will have some ideas also.
No Powder

 

[tg]

If you are getting spark and flash in the pan regularly then you may need to enlarge the touch hole to 5/64 or a bit larger this is a common practice with production guns, also try pricking the hole with a vent prick befotre shooting or even try loading with prick in place, either way will create a clear path from pan to main charge.If you wipe between shots do not go down all the way as this may clog the hole with fouling causing trouble on the next shot.

 

Frustrating, isn't it? Darned right it is.

Start with a good thorough cleaning. A patent breach has more than just a fancy "hook", it has long, stout breach plug that if removed, looks like a bolt that's had the center drilled out to form a sort of powder chamber. Consequently, in order for the flash of priming to get to the powder charge it has to travel past twice as much steel tham a rifle with a regular breach and breach plug lash-up. Any oil or fouling in that chamber just makes it even more difficult.

Pay attention when you're shooting. If you get fast ignition for the first shot, but slow ignition afterward, then a dirty breech is likely contributing, if not causing, the problem.

Drilling out the vent (touch hole) will probably help some in this case too.

Pick the vent every single shot, using a pick that is thin enough and long enough to go all the way through the powder chamber and touch the far wall of the breach. When you shove in the vent pick be sure you can feel powder "crunching" under the pick. Using a patent-breach flintlock it's real easy for a short or fat vent pick to just shove fouling and gunk deeper into the vent, leaving it obstructed.

Be really careful in your loading and priming process. Do not let any priming powder block or fill the vent. Otherwise ignition will be consistently slow.

I had much the same problem with an old T/C Hawken, and found that frequent cleaning, picking the vent each and every shot, and taking special care during loading solved the problem quite nicely.

Swanny

 

[musketman]

I have a suggestion for you...
I am going to take a different route here than everyone else...
No reference was made to the lock itself, so it here goes.

Pull off your lock and check the action, (coil or V-spring) manualy work the lock by hand, run it from full-cock to full-fired.

If the screws holding the tumbler and sear are torqued too tight, there will be a reduced lock time. Back these bolts off and just snug them a little tight.

Make sure these parts are well oiled too, a lock that is rusted will not work as well and have weak sparking power.

Maybe this will help, I hope so.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.There are a few things Im doing wrong. I do clean between shots,and go all the way to the bottom. I can see where this pushes fouling into the breechplug.Also I wasnt using the pick every shot.
As far as the lock itself I had it apart and stoned off any rough spots and there were many.
Now two more questions, would a replacement lock like the one L&R makes speed up lock time, and would installing one of Jim Chambers Whitelightning vent liners do any good.
I just got a catalog and vidio from Jim Chamber and there kits look great. But I want to get this flint lock working before I even think about building one.
Ont other thing what are the best flint to get and where to get them.
Thanks, hangfire

 

[musketman]

I use English Flints, hard, black flint from the cliff's of Dover, England...
(I know, American flints are out of work and I'm buying English ones.)

Dixie Gun Works carries them.
Here's a link...

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=4dd97ed64689bc6002673cac1c6e6952&keywords=english+flints

As for the lock, Yes you could replace it, but make sure you don't have to add/remove wood from your stock to do so.

Not all locks will have the same bolt pattern.

Maybe you just need to replace the spring?
It could be weak, not enough coils...

p.s. How is the face of the frizzen? (pitted, un-even?) This could be a problem too.

 

I went to the range today to try to get this flintlock gpr to work. I had a new can of 4F Goex for the pan and was using 70 gr of 2F Swiss. Out of 25 shots nothing changed still slow ignition. I had the normal misfires and a few hangfires.
Before I want out I checked the lock, It is smooth and free. I used English flints, I tried not cleaning to the breech plug,and I used a pick every shot, I also replaced the vent liner.
Could there be something wrong with the breech plug where the vent liner screws in? This rifle was bought new just this winter and never worked right from the getgo.
There was a gentleman at the range with a new TVA rifle, he let me take 2 shots with his gun, It was like shooting a modern gun no delay and very accurate. If I cant get this Lyman working, I just might have to get me a different gun.

About the breech plug how hard is it to remove
on a Lyman?

Thanks, Hangfire

 

[tg]

I know some folks with flint LGP guns who have good results, you may want to question Lyman on this and explain the steps you have taken and the lack of results you have experienced. It is possible to get a gun that has a manufactures defect in the flash channel between the liner and face of the breech plug. If you have an extra liner drill it out the hole to 3/32 or 1/8 just as a test to see if there is any difference with a large touch hole.

 

[musketman]

How about trying a few loads with a different brand of powder for the main charge...

Say, 70gr FFg GOEX powder...
Maybe the swiss powder is slow to ignite in this brand of flintlock.

Have you used this swiss powder in other flintlocks?

Maybe you could offer someone at the shooting range a couple of shots using your swiss powder, just to see if that works in their flintlock...

A can of powder is cheaper to replace than a muzzleloader.
Who knows, it might be worth a try.

 

[ozark]

Hangfire,
try an unfolded paper clip that is about the same size as your touch hole put it in the vent hole while loading . After seating ball pull the paper clip out and prime the pan about 1/2 full of 4f prime powder.
I shoot a lyman gprh flint and have good lock time.
Before you start any modifications call lyman and if you can't get any information from them ask them to check it out. They ought to be more then willing to do that as it is basicly a new gun.
They have always been more then happy to help me on what few problems I've had[none mechanical,just me loseing xtra parts]
HOPE THIS HELPS
your humble front stuffer lover
zark

 

[No Powder]

Been sitting here rereading this set of postings. I hope you have the problem solved, but hear is one more thing to try if you already haven't. This may sound silly but on one of my flinters the rock is mounted with the angle side up, and on the another the angle side is down, and it makes a big difference in the lock time on each gun, if I change the mounting of the rock. I don't know why I can't see any difference in the spark produced or where it appears to strike the pan, but there must be something I can't see. I hope I have just wasted my time and you are now shooting tens with the gun.
Good luck
No Powder

 

[Roger_Dailey]

I've had real good results with the vent liners from http://rmcsports.com/catalog.htm (scroll down the sections list to "Nipples..."). I do enlarge the vent hole to 5/64". With the larger hole and 3F powder, it is almost self priming. That is, you should be able to see powder grains through the vent hole.
YMMV

 

[weasel]

I recently bought a lyman great plains rifle in .54 cal. using 4f goex (pan half full away from touch hole liner) as priming I experienced good not great ignition just experiment don't give up on flinters learn to hold thru you'll do all right. the triggers on these rifles do leave something to be desired weasel

 

[kvistads]

Do yourself a BIG favor - install one of Jim Chambers "White Lightning" flash-hole liners then get his flintlock EZ cleaner gizmo. The other Gentleman is correct on pushing crud down everytime you swab. Load the rifle and mark the ram-rod/range-rod with a magic marker at the point where the muzzle guard sits on top of your powder/patch & ball load. When swabbing, only swab to the mark on the rod.

Also on priming, never let your priming powder touch the flash-hole. You want to prime with just enough powder to where the flash "jumps" toward the flash-hole. It is the heat that makes the charge ignite. If you are letting powder touch the main charge you are creating a fuse effect which will result in a delay. I always try to put the priming powder on the outside edge of the pan away from the flash-hole. Only a half of a pan or so.

Remember too that Cleanliness is Godlyness. Always wipe that pan and flint with a rag dampened in alcohol. Keep flint sharp and check to see if the flint is "pulling" at your fingertips when lightly rubbed across the cutting edge of the flint. If it isn't pulling slightly at your skin

- knapp!

Be patient and don't give up. I went through the same thing when I was first introduced to flintlock shooting. You can work it out!

My 2 cents worth

Russell

 

[Zonie]

Others touched on it so I will too.

It sounds like your overfilling the pan. If the pan powder is up to the vent hole it will create slow firing every time.

To get fast ignition I would suggest putting in only enough powder to cover the lower 1/3 of the pan, and push it out away from the barrel so there is about a 1/8 inch gap between the start of the powder and the side of the barrel.

As was mentioned, before priming the pan stick a paper clip thru the vent hole to make sure it is not blocked by fouling.

The thing that actually fires the main charge is the flame front from the pan powder traveling thru the touch (vent) hole into the main charge. If the outside of the vent is blocked by powder or fouling you will get a Flash In The Pan and the gun will not fire.

 

[smokeblower]

Try all the above advise. 3f Goex as the charge and 4 f in the pan is what the Lyman flinter shooters I know use. If you do decide in the long run to change guns I would go with a Pedersoli, in my humble opinion, they beat the Lyman products and are much better manufactured guns.

 

[2172]

hangfire, all good advice. I bought a lefthanded flint GPR in December, had the slow ignition problem you describe. I drilled out the touchhole and messed with the flint, the one that came with the rifle was poor. I then took the frizen off the lock, and polished the surfaces where it "hinged" in the lock...polished those parts of the lock too...didn't do a lot of violence to the surfaces, just polished with jewelers rouge....it worked. My problem in part was the resistance of the frizen to the strike of the flint....now have an acceptable ignition...not as good as my Jim Chambers lock on my right hand flinter, but OK until I can bring myself to buy a Siler lock from Jim....Hank