Whats so great about real black powder?

[Bookie]

Traditional BP, when fired, causes sulfuric acid to form which is corrosive. The modern stuff, they'll tell you doesn't make it-and that part is true. What it does make and they don't talk about is hydrochloric acid. That's a little corrosive, too, eh? :grin: 51 years of black for this boy. Bookie

 

[silverfox]

Taylor in Texas. you answered your own question when you said you had a missfire with Pyrodex. Won't happen with Goex and not acceptable when hunting. Take it from another Texan go Black unless you shoot those other type guns. Then use Black anyway its better. Faster ignition, more accurate, same cleanup. Easier on the mind to don't have to think about it not going off.
Fox :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[spotlink]

Lol, sorry I never got to fully explain myself as to why real BP is better, but it seems that others did better than I could have done. I slipped away to shoot shortly after my first post.

 

[HistoryBuff]

I was lucky if I got ignition at all on my flintlock using a substitute. I switched to real black powder and the much lower ignition temperature and much faster burn rate made the difference between night and day. I could count "one-1000, two-1000" and then get a boom using Clearshot. I'm not exaggerating. But I can't flinch fast enough using real BP. I need to simply omit the flinch.

HistoryBuff

 

[mikelange]

Texan, you sound as if you've been convinced, and I'm just repeating what others have said, but....

I used pyrodex when I first started shooting front-loaders. I've used it only occasionally since I moved to Indiana eleven years ago and discovered several places that sold real BP. Since I shoot mainly flintlocks and pyrodex doesn't work well in them, I have to keep BP on hand and it doesn't make sense to buy another product that, IMHO, is more difficult to ignite -- in percussion as well as flint -- and still requires a messy clean-up process after the day's shooting is done.

I built percussion guns for my niece, nephew, and their dad, and he (my brother-in-law) bought pyrodex at Wal-Mart to feed them. They all had numerous misfires. I finally bought a case of Skirmish black powder and gave some to my in-laws, and, despite its being (apparently) an off-brand of some sort, the only misfires that have happened to them since were due to shooter error (oil in drums, old powder residue allowed to clog the nipples, that sort of thing).

Obviously, if you've used pyrodex for two years and been satisfied with its performance, I'd say you might not see a reason to change. If you get the chance to acquire some real BP, though, do. I seriously doubt you'll regret it.

 

Whats so great about real black powder?

There's no point in calling it "real" black powder. All black powder is real. Everything else is a "substitute". :winking:

 

[taylorh]

Thanks for all input. I'll let you know what I think after I get back from the gun show.
Taylor in Texas

 

[Slake]

to answer your question...the smoke.....it's the smoke

In all seriousness, I was taught Pyrodex was cheaper and easier to clean up. I tried Goex BP and found it cheaper and easiler to clean up...go figure.....and it has better smoke

I tried putting Pyrodex RS right up against Goex with two other shooters. All of us agreed that there seemed to be a wee bit of a hang time with the Pyrodex. The Goex big quick boom. Now to be fair we also tried Triple Seven and that seemed to be just as good as the Goex but was not quite twice the price.

 

[ryoung14]

Texan,
Keep an open mind when you try the Goex. I only shoot percussion arms and my experience has been the same as yours. Pyrodex works fine. Due to all the proponents of real BP on this site, I bought a couple of pounds of Goex 3f at a local shop for $18.50 a lb. just to give it a try.

I've only shot the Goex one session so far, but failed to notice any difference in ignition. I did notice the between shot cleaning was slightly more difficult with the Goex, but barely enough so to be noticeable. I was shooting Pyrodex RS right alongside the Goex so I think the comparison was fair. Accuracy, if anything, slightly favored the Pyrodex...but that could've been a fluke or the gun just liked the slower powder.

The Goex smelled the same, kicked the same, and smoked the same as far as I could see. But I've still got over a lb. and a half to burn up, so it's possible I'll see the 'light'.

Basically, I shoot Pyrodex because I was able to pick up several lbs. of the stuff at a serious discount several years ago. Think I paid around $4.00 a lb. for RS at a WalMart in Indiana after deer season. No such bargains are to be found here in Hillary Country. When I run out, I'll probably switch over to Goex if the bulk pricing is anywhere near as good as they say. It's good to have alternatives and Goex seems to be fine in that regard.

One point. I think Pyrodex's higher ignition temperature is a plus. Storing it in quantity doesn't bother me in the least. It's probably a little more dangerous than my smokeless powders in that regard, but not much. The lower ignition temperature of real BP, would make me pause before stashing a large quantity all in one place. I figure it's not for nothing that so many storage precautions are imposed on BP
dealers.

One 'Buckskinner type' I used to work with talked about real BP 'sweating' in the can when stored too long under improper conditions. Said it gets real unstable should this occur and to get it out of the house as quickly and as carefully as possible if found. Don't know whether it happened to him or some friend of his; but at the time he was my BP authority figure as he'd been shooting it a couple of decades. He never had issues shooting Pyrodex in percussion guns but kept the Goex on hand for the flinter.
FWIW
Bob

 

[roundball]

One 'Buckskinner type' I used to work with talked about real BP 'sweating' in the can when stored too long under improper conditions. Said it gets real unstable should this occur and to get it out of the house as quickly and as carefully as possible if found.

Not True.


Also, ordering Goex by the case is quite inexpensive...I use Goex Distributor J&JPyrotechnic in Moscow, PA...you have one in Rochester, NY.

Here's the link to all major Goex Distrbutors that will direct ship...also, they'll mix granulations in the same case...ie: last couple of cases I've ordered, I've mixed 1 can 4F, 20cans 3F, and 4 cans 2F
[url] http://www.goexpowder.com/distributors.html[/url]

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

First, Pyrodex smokes just as much as Goex and is just as dirty. The down to Pyro vs Goex is that Pyro has a higher ignition temperature.

 

[Uncle Jed]

Where I live all I have available locally is pyrodex. My understanding is that pyrodex is like black powder in most respects except that its cleaner, a little less smokey, and has a higher ignition temperature. These all sound like positives to me. What am I missing out on? And if I were to switch to BP what brand should I choose?
Taylor in Texas

Well you sure said a mouth full young feller, Granny is a scratchin her head on this one. If'n yourn shootin' iron is a flintgun like mine, then you would need to be usin the real McCoy to be sure its gonna work, fake "black powders" don't work worth a hoot in flintguns unless you use a duplex load of real and fake powders, then the performance is less than desired. My way of thinkin is that the worst black powder made is still right better than the best fake powder made, ifn black powder twern't no good, then how come it has been around since the tenth century?

 

[Slake]

kinda makes me smile...Goex has purtier smoke...a wee bit of a blue hue to it doncha know...I shoot with one old stuck in his ways curmudgeon and he couldn't believe his eyes when he finally admitted he saw it too. Pyrodex gives a white smoke....I'm not sayin it's bad. I'll use it and it is, I'm sorry to say, much easier to find than Goex

 

[roundball]

kinda makes me smile...Goex has purtier smoke...a wee bit of a blue hue to it doncha know...I shoot with one old stuck in his ways curmudgeon and he couldn't believe his eyes when he finally admitted he saw it too. Pyrodex gives a white smoke....I'm not sayin it's bad. I'll use it and it is, I'm sorry to say, much easier to find than Goex

Years asgo I had cleaned out the shelves at a Walmart when they had a clearance sale of Pyrodex...bought something like 12-15 lbs for $9/each.

A year later when I shot my first Flintlock, that was that and Flintlocks are all I've been shooting...tried mixng the two powders 50%/50% but wasn't satisfied with the results, then tried "layering" the powders...20grns Goex 3F followed by 30grns Pyrodex...premeasured/preloaded 35mm film canisters)...and layered loads have been extremely consistent & accurate...down to my last 2.5lbs of Pyrodex...white smoke and all...but I salvaged that Pyrodex investment.

 

[mikelange]

To amplify what Short Start said -- and bear in mind that I'm a BP fan -- I have noticed that, here in SE Indiana, where 99% is considered low humidity :haha: black powder does have a tendency to get gummy on me, particularly 3F and finer. At the point that happens, though, it's either raining or so hot and muggy that either rain or sweat is flooding my eyes and priming pan, and it's time to pack it in.

Black powder also has a lower ignition temperature, which is why many gun stores don't carry it -- it's volatile enough to require (in the Feds' minds) special handling and licensing. However, common sense is pretty much required in storing any sort of explosive, be it black powder, pyrodex, whatever. The mistake that will detonate your supply of BP and leave you looking like Wile E. Coyote after a mishap with a stick of Acme dynamite will probably also touch off your pyrodex, and in most cases will be written off by more careful folks as nature weeding out the weak and stupid.

 

[roundball]

Personal Opinion/Thoughts:

I've often wondered if way back, when the government classified BP like it is, if it wasn't a little overkill given the level of real technical understanding of things like that at the time...and now that the laws are on the books, well you know.... :shake:

The reason I say that is in spite of the classification, every case of Goex I've ordered has traveled hundreds of miles, been loaded on and off various trains/trucks/cars, whatever, multiple times, sat in hot trucks & overnight warehouses, and is also then left sitting out in the open on my front porch where the afternoon sun in the summertime will record 140* on a thermometer laid out on the ground...and the Goex goes through all that in a simple cardboard box.

So for me, I really question just how differently dangerous it really is compared to other powders I have on my garage shelves that's used to reload centerfire rifle, pistol, and shotun shells...and those powders get delivered the exact same way
:hmm:

 

[jderrick]

Check out these vids -- in this one I'm using Pyrodex in my flinter for priming and the charge(note the delay)... usually wouldn't even go off: http://www.shelbystar.com/video/John/shooting%20clip%202%20032106.wmv

And this is with the real stuff: http://www.shelbystar.com/video/John/fl040706.wmv

 

[roundball]

Check out these vids -- in this one I'm using Pyrodex in my flinter for priming and the charge(note the delay)... usually wouldn't even go off: http://www.shelbystar.com/video/John/shooting%20clip%202%20032106.wmv

And this is with the real stuff: http://www.shelbystar.com/video/John/fl040706.wmv

(I couldn't get the links to work)

 

[mikelange]

Roundball, I tend to agree with you. When my posts involve any question of legality, or the whys and wherefores of those laws, I tend to go on the assumption that there's actually a valid reason for said laws. Which is, in itself, quite often a mistake.... :haha: :haha: :haha:

 

[charlie45]

:grin: Simply put, with a real round ball barrel & patched round ball you can't beat real black powder. I have tried them all and I am still shooting Goex 3f.
However: of all I tried Triple 7 was the best.
25 gr. of that stuff will do 1" @ 25 yards and in my book that is good enough for Mr. Bunny. But if I need to shoot 50 & 100 yards it well be 45 & 65 of Goex 3f. IMO :grin: