What's the purpose of the Patch box

[C_Laubach]

This is my guess;

Chris Laubach

 

[madbrad]

That pretty much solves that.

 

[flintriflesmith]

That pretty much solves that.

I'm at a lose as to how a photo of what someone, date and motive unknown, put in a patch box would close the discussion on how patch boxes were used in the 18th and 19th centuries.

The series of Muzzle Blasts articles Wallace Gusler has written had two on the patchbox. March 2003, page 7 and May 2003, page 60. Although, as has been mentioned, the term in Rev War times was simply "box" Wallaces says, "...by the early 1790s the term in patch box, and not surprisingly when called a "patch box" that is what it was used for." He goes on to quote several period accounts refering to patch boxes.

Note that in the Isacc Weld 1796 account already mentioned, the patch is "...well greased on the outside..." To me that sounds like a dry patch that was greased at the time of loading. Take a look at the tallow in the rifle picture posted earlier in this thread and see if it doesn't look like that is how it was being used.

When Wallace and I were first learning to shot muzzleloaders in the Virginia backcountry the oldtimers said the patch was only greased on the outside because greasing the inside could let the ball slip. Many of you are saying "bull s***" but that folk belief came from a time when loose patch and ball combinations were the norm.

Has anyone ever seen a period reference to "pre-lubed" patches or is that another modern invention?

Gary

 

[flintriflesmith]

Another point that can be raised is that the spring opened patch box door was used when "boxes" began to be used for patches. So the 1771 brass barreled rifle with no kickopen spring could predate the common use of boxes for patches.

 

[flashpanner]

In more modern times it will be the place we store our cell phones! :grin:
It would seem like a more logical place to stow a worm, cleaning jag, or extra flint. Maybe it should have been called a flint box, or accessory box.

 

[tg]

"But doesn't that put the grease in a rather inconvenient location? There you are, holding the muzzle of a rifle you've just charged, and now you're gonna either reach way down or lift it way up to lube your patch?"

I use a tallow hole one one gun with a 42" barrel and do not find it awkward to reach down as I raise the gun a bit to lube a patch. it is like many ML things, once you try it, it usually is not as odd as one would excpect.

 

[flintriflesmith]

It would seem like a more logical place to stow a worm, cleaning jag, or extra flint. Maybe it should have been called a flint box, or accessory box.

"Should have, could have and would have" aside, they started calling it a patch bok in the 1790s because, as the period accounts tell us, that is what it was used for. :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Works good for chesse and crackers too. :shocked2:

 

[Rebel]

It was just someones idea of a practical joke back in the day. They probably figured that some day a bunch of crazy guys would sit around arguing what the heck was this thing used for? :grin:

 

[musketman]

I could see them using a patch box to keep gold nuggets in, like a sort of "SAFE", after all, their gun was their livelihood, so it didn't get far from arms reach...

 

I think the best suggestion except for the period accounts sited was the Band-Aid Box. I love it! :rotf: :rotf: Can't get over it!! :rotf:

 

[mmahlock]

I have a rather limited experience with weapons since I tend to stay as close to the 1800 to 1840 period as I can along with a specific focus on British weapons etc.

In 1800 when the British Board of Ordnace adopted teh Pattern 1800 Infantry Rifle (Baker), the design included a "But Box" specifically for the purpose of carrying gun tools and cut round patches. The box was designed with two compartments, one rectangular 2 1/8" x 1 3/8" x 5/8" and one round 1 3/8" x 5/8". The basic design of this rifle was based on German Jegar rifles which had but boxes for the most part. I can only conjecture that including them to carry gun tools was a common carry over form the Jegars and they got it form German hunters. I can only assume that the inclusion of the round compartment for patches was made on the premis that the soldiers needed a place to carry their cut patches where they wouldn't loose them or get other things in thier other pouches greasy from the patches.

This design however proved to be impractial for the soldiers since the Pattern 1805 and all subsequent patterns were made with but boxes that had only one rectangular compartment again for the purpose of carrying gun tools. The tools by the way consisted of one each:

Torque Bar (Tommy Bar)
Wiping Eye (latter a Jag)
Ball Puller
Take Down Tool (a double bladed screwdriver for Sergants and experienced soldiers) Inexperienced soldiers were prohibited from removing their locks or barrels by themselves.

Just one view of the priod. :thumbsup:

 

[flashpanner]

ok ok! it was really used for a tobacco box! It is where they kept there smokes. Some even had twisted ends! :bull:

 

[Gary]

By the time of the Napoleonic Wars, it was called a patchbox. I recall reading in one British Rifleman's book about how their pickets would hold up their rifle, tap on the brass patchbox as a signal to their French counterpart.

Gunbuilder/hornmaker Ron Ehlert uses his to store Snicker Bars. I opened his jaeger up but didn't touch the Snicker (really).

 

[bnail]

By the time of the Napoleonic Wars, it was called a patchbox. I recall reading in one British Rifleman's book about how their pickets would hold up their rifle, tap on the brass patchbox as a signal to their French counterpart.

Gunbuilder/hornmaker Ron Ehlert uses his to store Snicker Bars. I opened his jaeger up but didn't touch the Snicker (really).

So Gary, what you're saying is that the original term for this was a "Confectionery Receptacle"?
ideally though, one should only carry Milky Way bars as Snickers didn't appear until GW Carver introduced the peanut into them after the Cvil War. and that's a fact! :winking: