• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Wheel lock help

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Adam Hall

32 Cal
Joined
Mar 19, 2023
Messages
10
Reaction score
19
Last spring I got the idea in my head that I wanted to try a wheel lock.
Found Lauber's book on-line and muddled through it.
Between that and some recent auction postings to give the basic form I wound up with a reasonable looking pistol.

Now its time to make it go boom...

However, I am not getting enough spark to light 4f powder.

For those of you who shoot wheel locks what do you put in the cock/dog to generate the spark.
How are the teeth in the wheel cut to engage with the pyrite.
How strongly is the pyrite jammed into the wheel.


Also,
What was the period correct finish on the metal.
Were martial pistols in the early 1600's left in the white, or were they browned or blued?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0853.JPEG
    IMG_0853.JPEG
    889.8 KB
Also,
What was the period correct finish on the metal.
Were martial pistols in the early 1600's left in the white, or were they browned or blued?
Nice looking gun!
I can’t speak to the operation, but having recently researched the lock finish myself, guns of the period and style of yours seem to mostly be in the white.
 
Last edited:
To add a source to my previous comment, I have a book that’s a visual inventory of the Graz armory‘s entire wheellock collection, which may be one of the largest in the world. For 16th century, wheellocks were commonly blued (often the barrel too). For the guns they have that match yours, I think all of them were in the white, but I can double check when I get home from work. Your gun matches the period where they started taking economy into consideration.
 
I looked through and couldn’t find any in this style with a blued lockplate. The armory is mostly guns built in Austria, southern Germany, and northern Italy.
There are literally 100s so I couldn’t get a perfect match, but here are some examples. The size of this book makes it awkward to photograph, so apologies for the photo quality.
6C92A1A3-A1C9-43B1-84A6-6C8EACCA9334.jpeg

3561DFEE-C532-405E-B018-C05B1B22472D.jpeg

FA84A146-41F0-45E7-96B2-1011552973A8.jpeg

2115D296-7B82-436F-A94E-2F5763493793.jpeg

A5779567-EDDD-41C0-B419-1D05B16DD4C9.jpeg

EEE273ED-2A6F-4414-B459-11EAED889C02.jpeg
 
For comparison, here are some examples of the last types of blued guns the museum has
B961091C-A879-41B4-8165-71D2710AE9F0.jpeg

F188554E-DE33-489D-85F7-8DFB3E51B90A.jpeg

49E87C8D-3110-4FA4-AC0F-99C010C9A044.jpeg

Once again apologies for the bad photos. Big and heavy book lol.

For puffers with blued lockplates, I have a couple examples from the book in the inlay and decoration thread
 

Attachments

  • B7233954-4BBC-4203-A1AA-BA25BD46A1BB.jpeg
    B7233954-4BBC-4203-A1AA-BA25BD46A1BB.jpeg
    1.7 MB
  • 2DBA26A6-66DA-4CC1-B321-B844AA2BDFB4.jpeg
    2DBA26A6-66DA-4CC1-B321-B844AA2BDFB4.jpeg
    1.7 MB
Welcome to the ‘Wheelies’ Club!

Spark - Did you design it so that the pan cover is ‘closed’ when firing? And a cam integral to the tumbler pushed it open it after the trigger is pulled? If needed, show us a picture of the interior of your lock, and wound and unwound please.

On a proper/correct wheellock you wind the wheel clockwise facing the lock and the wheel should generate at least 1/2 and preferably a good 3/4+ of a turn.

The reason for the pyrite, in the jaws of the dog, resting on the pan cover is that that is where the dog spring should be ‘hung’ or set (by the foot on the dog to the dog spring) so as to produce its maximum tension.

Then when you pull the trigger … the wheel releases, which spins it up to its max RPMs and then the pyrite slams into the already spinning wheel once the cover opens.

Pyrite - FYI, I have been having great success with the ‘crumbly’ pyrite sold on eBay, that look like ‘globs of sand’ glued together, about the size of marbles and those big aggie marbles and bigger. I split them into chunks with a cold chisel, wearing safety glasses. I find the chunks almost ‘self clean’ as a little bit of the grit gets worn off with each shot.

Now get this, as a ‘spark generator’, pyrite is actually a faster and hotter ignition source then flint, but the mechanism itself is slower (due to the wheel dog interface) and historians say to expect a 10% to 25% failure to fire rate of an operable wheellock.

Personally I get better than that performance using those crumbled pyrite pieces and once went 25 of 26 shots, the last shot that failed of course … where then I cleaned the pyrite, yes even a crumbly, with alcohol to restore its performance.

Wheel - Yes, the perimeter of the wheel around the circumference should be serrated with 3 or 4 grooves. Then there should be lateral cuts across the wheel at least three, less than an 8th” apart, in at least 4 locations, like at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock.

Did you harden the wheel properly? Make sure the file slides off or across it …

Finish - In the white only, age it if desired. I personally don’t think any of those are or were ‘blued’, but probably turned gray to a dark gray patina from use and due to the iron used

Other - Feel free to PM me if you need more assistance.
 
Last edited:
Wheel hardening;
Is it supposed to be hardened and tempered like a flintlock frizzen? With wheelies, it's the pyrite pieces that come off and creates the sparks rather than the iron / carbon in the wheel, correct (the opposite of a flint gun)?
 
Finish - In the white only, age it if desired. I personally don’t think any of those are or were ‘blued’, but probably turned gray to a dark gray patina from use and due to the iron used
They have enough well preserved examples with contrast between blued and unblued parts that it seem pretty convincing they were originally blued, in most cases the author makes the claim. Obviously I have never seen any of these in person and am a novice at this type of thing, so I could be wrong.

Guns refurbished at the end of the 16th century:
F3B2D29A-4928-4C08-B648-0BA6801159C7.jpeg

62CD9485-0328-49A1-B2C5-6BEAAF6A5338.jpeg

9CF470F3-7271-4056-B8EA-CE081B3C290D.jpeg

Two guns of the same period, one blued, one unblued:
B7150372-DE17-4D41-91DB-27F01C4672AA.jpeg

D7A3B146-E1D4-453F-A2FA-C49CFCDDD876.jpeg

Blued mid 16th century pistols:
4C4F0F20-38AC-4017-B012-CDD1D8CF426B.jpeg

87BA7E14-3F24-4BF3-90F5-ECF048D5E7F5.jpeg

BAFA4155-B876-48DD-9A57-01FB4A5DDDDD.jpeg




Trying to get a close up shot has not helped my photography. I swear they are clearer in person lol.
 
With wheelies, it's the pyrite pieces that come off and creates the sparks rather than the iron / carbon in the wheel, correct (the opposite of a flint gun)?
That is correct!

Pyrite is also called iron pyrite or Fool’s Gold and it is a naturally occurring iron disulfide mineral. The name comes from the Greek word pyr, or “fire”, because pyrite emits sparks when struck by metal.
 
To those who responded, thank you very much.

From what has been presented, the period examples similar to mine were typically not blued, but some earlier and more ornate forms were. I guess it will leave it in the white for now.

Regarding the lock -

Yes the wheel is rotated clockwise to wind and counter clockwise on firing.
It makes about 3/4 of a turn.
The dog does rest on top of the pan cover and the cover opens automatically.

I will play with different forms of pyrite.

The wheel is not glass hard, but I can harden it.
It has three crests and two roots around the circumference.
I can add a few more teeth in the axial direction.

How hard should the pyrite push into the wheel?
I am wondering if the spring is too light, or the foot on the dog too short.
The mechanical disadvantage is high.

I attached a video of the lock I took part way through the build.
The cam and follower for the pan cover has been redone for faster opening and the lock was not fully polished at this point.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0643.mp4
    31.9 MB
To those who responded, thank you very much.

From what has been presented, the period examples similar to mine were typically not blued, but some earlier and more ornate forms were. I guess it will leave it in the white for now.

Regarding the lock -

Yes the wheel is rotated clockwise to wind and counter clockwise on firing.
It makes about 3/4 of a turn.
The dog does rest on top of the pan cover and the cover opens automatically.

I will play with different forms of pyrite.

The wheel is not glass hard, but I can harden it.
It has three crests and two roots around the circumference.
I can add a few more teeth in the axial direction.

How hard should the pyrite push into the wheel?
I am wondering if the spring is too light, or the foot on the dog too short.
The mechanical disadvantage is high.

I attached a video of the lock I took part way through the build.
The cam and follower for the pan cover has been redone for faster opening and the lock was not fully polished at this point.
How difficult was it to make the mainspring? I have the same instructions and another set for an earlier pistol and have been wondering how difficult it would be to try.
 
I got mine from Loyalist. They included a couple of pyrites, but they seem to be cut from a solid rock, not the crumbly kind other described. I'll have to investigate those, as the ones they sent only seem to go boom about 1 in 4 times. I thought about getting a small square of plastic or metal and drilling a couple of holes along the edge to hold Zippo lighter flints. Still may try that.
 
Interesting side note: I remember reading many years ago the bluing, as a finish on gun parts, went back many years earlier than I and many others originally thought. I also read that original style charcoal bluing (like Colt revolvers as an example) would eventually turn grey if not kept oiled.

Rick
 
Interesting side note: I remember reading many years ago the bluing, as a finish on gun parts, went back many years earlier than I and many others originally thought. I also read that original style charcoal bluing (like Colt revolvers as an example) would eventually turn grey if not kept oiled.

Rick
Techniques of Decoration on Arms and Armor | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

Bluing was popular with armor in the 16th century. Not really sure before that, but I assume the 15th century would make sense too. At least one example of the Wallace collection's Maximillian armor from the beginning of the 16th century was probably blued, so that corresponds to when guns became widespread.
 
How difficult was it to make the mainspring? I have the same instructions and another set for an earlier pistol and have been wondering how difficult it would be to try.
The springs intimidated me as well, but that's probably a good reason to choose the wheel lock.
Steel selection - almost anything that you can heat treat in a home shop will be superior to what every they used 500 years ago.
In those days metallurgy was akin to witchcraft, and the only alloying elements were native to the ore or picked up from the flux and fuel in the furnace. So the metals we have today are much stronger and better able to handle the stresses of the application than what our forefathers had. If we copy their stuff with modern materials, the chances of success are high.

Making the man spring and spring for the dog/cock

I went to the scrap bin and looked for something about the correct thickness that was used in an application that would have required it to be heat treated in the original application, and came up with an old law mower blade.

I selected it because: It was the right thickness. it had to be tough for the original application, so it probably had enough carbon to heat treat. The blade was also a relatively low cost commodity grade component, so no one was going to use an exotic alloy for the application (IE it probably would heat treat without issue in a home shop).

After selection I cut a test square, heated until it lost its magnetism, and quenched it to verify it would harden and not crack.
Simple file test to verify it got harder and hammer strike in a vise to shatter the metal. I want to see a brittle fracture surface with a fine gray texture.


Cutting - roughed out the oversized blank with an angle grinder and cut off wheel.
Then I tossed it in a brush fire and left it their overnight to soften it.
Filled it to width.
Used the cutting torch to heat it and rough in the form with round nosed plyers.
With the form roughed in I located the jog for the toggle link to rid in and forged that with a simple home made mild steel die - Just a round notch made with a drill bit. I heated the spring and drove it into the notch with a round bar on top to create the C shape. (sure it will ware fast, but I don't plan on using it much)

The loop on the cock spring was started with round nose plyers and tapped into shape around a steel rod on the anvil.

With the form finalized, I cut the notches and drilled the holes and verified it fit.
Then smoothed all surfaces with files and paper. Made sure all the scratches were along the length of the spring, not crossing it.

Finally I did a simple heat treat by suspending it from wire and heating it slowly with a torch until it was no longer magnetic, then quenched in oil as that was sufficient to get the metal hard.

Ran it across a wire wheel to remove the scale and brighten it slightly, then I cooked it in a toaster oven at about 400 F for 1/2 hour.
The hotter you go on the temper, the tougher the part is, but it also takes a set more easily. Lower tempers are harder and less ductile, but will bend farther before snapping. I wanted it soft enough to yield without snapping if I over stressed it. Easier to reharden and temper at a lower temp the to start again from scratch.

Finally check the fit, test the operation, and polish


It is hard to do - compared to what.
Getting the form is not too bad if you have hammered iron for 30 years.
If your not a confident, make a simple hardwood from to hammer the part around from some scrap or an old pallet.
Sure it will smoke and burn, but it will be more than good enough for one part.
 
The springs intimidated me as well, but that's probably a good reason to choose the wheel lock.
Steel selection - almost anything that you can heat treat in a home shop will be superior to what every they used 500 years ago.
In those days metallurgy was akin to witchcraft, and the only alloying elements were native to the ore or picked up from the flux and fuel in the furnace. So the metals we have today are much stronger and better able to handle the stresses of the application than what our forefathers had. If we copy their stuff with modern materials, the chances of success are high.

Making the man spring and spring for the dog/cock

I went to the scrap bin and looked for something about the correct thickness that was used in an application that would have required it to be heat treated in the original application, and came up with an old law mower blade.

I selected it because: It was the right thickness. it had to be tough for the original application, so it probably had enough carbon to heat treat. The blade was also a relatively low cost commodity grade component, so no one was going to use an exotic alloy for the application (IE it probably would heat treat without issue in a home shop).

After selection I cut a test square, heated until it lost its magnetism, and quenched it to verify it would harden and not crack.
Simple file test to verify it got harder and hammer strike in a vise to shatter the metal. I want to see a brittle fracture surface with a fine gray texture.


Cutting - roughed out the oversized blank with an angle grinder and cut off wheel.
Then I tossed it in a brush fire and left it their overnight to soften it.
Filled it to width.
Used the cutting torch to heat it and rough in the form with round nosed plyers.
With the form roughed in I located the jog for the toggle link to rid in and forged that with a simple home made mild steel die - Just a round notch made with a drill bit. I heated the spring and drove it into the notch with a round bar on top to create the C shape. (sure it will ware fast, but I don't plan on using it much)

The loop on the cock spring was started with round nose plyers and tapped into shape around a steel rod on the anvil.

With the form finalized, I cut the notches and drilled the holes and verified it fit.
Then smoothed all surfaces with files and paper. Made sure all the scratches were along the length of the spring, not crossing it.

Finally I did a simple heat treat by suspending it from wire and heating it slowly with a torch until it was no longer magnetic, then quenched in oil as that was sufficient to get the metal hard.

Ran it across a wire wheel to remove the scale and brighten it slightly, then I cooked it in a toaster oven at about 400 F for 1/2 hour.
The hotter you go on the temper, the tougher the part is, but it also takes a set more easily. Lower tempers are harder and less ductile, but will bend farther before snapping. I wanted it soft enough to yield without snapping if I over stressed it. Easier to reharden and temper at a lower temp the to start again from scratch.

Finally check the fit, test the operation, and polish


It is hard to do - compared to what.
Getting the form is not too bad if you have hammered iron for 30 years.
If your not a confident, make a simple hardwood from to hammer the part around from some scrap or an old pallet.
Sure it will smoke and burn, but it will be more than good enough for one part.
Great write up, thank you for sharing!

Interesting that its possible to temper the spring at only 400 F. That is very manageable for a home hobbyist.
 
Back
Top