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Wheel weight vs. pure lead

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If you have the choice, pure lead is always your best bet. However, like most of us, we have found pure lead to be pretty pricy even from scrap metal dealers. You might save a bit if you can find a roofer or plumber that has some scrap that they will sell you. Wheel weights are a pretty hard alloy and some wheel weights are not even lead. They are some kind of alloy but not lead. Various alloys will have different expansion coefficients. This means that balls or conicals cast from the same mold will have different diameters depending on the alloy used to make them. But, if wheel weights are your only choice, they will work for patched round balls but not so well for conicals. Conicals need to be soft because they do not use a patch and must be able to engrave into the rifling inside the barrel. Wheel weight alloy is too hard for this to work well and you would have to use some kind of mallet to drive them into the muzzle. Even then, they may not fit well enough for them to contain the hot expanding gasses when you fire your gun. An improper seal results in varying chamber pressures and this causes varying muzzle velocities with a resultant varying of your POI. Simply stated, accuracy goes to hell.

Having said all of that, let's assume that you need conicals and your only choice of lead is wheel weights, there is a way to get the best possible accuracy from wheel weight conicals. Use wads on top of your powder charge. These wads can be made of pure wool felt (Duro-Felt), leather or other materials such as even wasp nest. You can buy a custom sized punch (very reasonably priced) for your rifle from a man who uses the name Ohio Ramrod on this forum. Then punch out felt or leather wads, lube them and load them on top of your powder before seating your conical. An alternative to wads is something like corn meal, grits, Cream of Wheat, etc. Just use your powder measure to measure out a volume equal to about 10 to 15 grains and pour this into your bore on top of your powder. This may sound strange but it is a common practice and works pretty darned well.

Lastly, I must add this caveat, if you are shooting conicals with an expanding skirt, you must use pure lead only. The skirt must be soft enough to expand when hit by the hot gasses. Also, you cannot use any kind of wad or cornmeal, etc. on top of your powder. The use of these seals will prevent the skirt of the bullet from expanding into the rifling.
 
I think I'm set for a while. Already have several lbs of pure lead stashed away and happened to mention to a cousin last month I was looking for it. Just got delivered a 75lb crate of flashing and lead wire. :grin:
 
In the immortal words of Turner Kirkland "use it" when casting just dont flux your lead most of the lighter alloys and debris will come to the surface and then just scrape it off. Pure lead is always better but im like most everyone here if its all ya got go fer it itts better than nothing.
 
Jethro224 said:
Did L & C or Dan'l use lead from the plumbing in their old houses? :hmm:
:haha: :stir:

Nossir - they didn't use plumbing from their old house, but something a whole lot more clever.

I'll admit to you privately that my initial response to your post was to get hissy, but I relented after a few minutes reflection. Y'see, there are old soldiers, and bold soldiers, and very few old AND bold soldiers. However, I'm one of them, and I'm soooooo grateful to still be around that I'm going to be kind to you, and respond like a nice guy would...

When we were over at Fort Clatsop a couple of years back, the docent there showed me a large lead bottle, about the size of a 'shine jug, designed to hold a few pounds of black powder, all sealed up and ready for the journey.

The bottle was actually made of pure soft lead, and when it was empty, they carved it up and melted it down to make their ball.

I thought that was pretty darn smart.

...and I bet that not many of you BP mavens knew it. :blah:

tac
 
I use both pure lead and WW I save the pure for conicals which I rarely shoot anymore,the WW or unknown lead does well with adjusting the patch thickness accuracy is good.weighing individual ball lead vs WW or unknown variences are less or equal to variences in the poured balls anyway 1-2 gr @ most. diameters measured with caliper are also insignificant.Now maybe my WW lead is not exactly that but it is somewhat harder than the known pure lead (fingernail scratch test) YMMV
 
When I started casting round balls for my GPRs all I had was range scrap. Since I am primarily a paper puncher I used that and worked up my loads. Later when I got some pure lead I cast using it. The pure cast a ball that was heavier and a small tad larger. On one rifle I had to go with a patch that was about .003 thinner and on the other no change was necessary. The accuracy and load remained the same. YMMV
 
I did know about the lead powder containers L & C used and I agree that it was pretty darn smart. Too bad Goex doesn't do the same.

I'm glad you didn't stay hissy tac. After all, I was just funnin' with ya. :v Couldn't pass it up.

And, if L & C and Dan'l had indoor plumbing, they surely woulda used it.
:haha: :stir: :stir: :stir: :blah:
 
they also used the lead lining from food boxes. tea was always in a lead lined box.
 
the docent there showed me a large lead bottle, about the size of a 'shine jug, designed to hold a few pounds of black powder, all sealed up and ready for the journey.

The bottle was actually made of pure soft lead, and when it was empty, they carved it up and melted it down to make their ball.

I thought that was pretty darn smart.

...and I bet that not many of you BP mavens knew it.

A very similar method is mentioned in the Lewis and Clark journals - discussed in Undaunted Courage by Ambrose.

But it was still not plumber or wheel weight lead. :stir:
 
The only problem I have seen is ww eats my sprue cutter on my molds. If I use just lead they last longer. JMHO
 
CrackStock said:
the docent there showed me a large lead bottle, about the size of a 'shine jug, designed to hold a few pounds of black powder, all sealed up and ready for the journey.

The bottle was actually made of pure soft lead, and when it was empty, they carved it up and melted it down to make their ball.

I thought that was pretty darn smart.

...and I bet that not many of you BP mavens knew it.

A very similar method is mentioned in the Lewis and Clark journals - discussed in Undaunted Courage by Ambrose.

But it was still not plumber or wheel weight lead. :stir:

I'm SURE you know that Fort Clatsop, where I talked with a docent about the L&C expedition, was a L&C expedition winter fort - hence the connection I made by referring to the L&C in my post about how the L&C expedition used a lead powder storage container.

'kay?

tac
 
I've always wondered about the effectiveness of a PRB and often thought whether it had anything to do with being pure lead. A guy I know dug a RB out out an elk he shot through the lungs- the elk didn't go far and the ball looked like a quarter- that's a lot of expansion. Since the bullet is also spinning- there may be some type of a cutting effect of a flattened ball spinning through the lungs. I'm wondering if there is a significant difference in perfomance on large game between pure lead and ww?
 
When people put :stir: it should be a clue that they are most often throwing out bait to see what individual will grab the bait. While you were not actually who I had in mind, you have self identified as the one who took the bait in a big way. I do believe in catch and release. Peace.

As to Ft. Clatsop, my shooting and travel buddy was there a few weeks ago and after his description, I hope to go there in the next few years. I had Dixon's, CLA and the desert south west higher on the itinerary.

Anyone who has read the book would understand that powder was carried in lead containers and that Ft. Clatsop was one of their important sites. But, what I find interesting is that the book mentions the containers as canisters rather than bottles.

Lead canister

I was wondering whether there has been a change in the use of the words over time and/or miles. Or were there different configurations in the structure of the containers?

But as you may notice, I often prefer to add a reference to some interesting and readily available source of information so that others might read more about what is being discussed. Actually this is more in support of your comment rather than a challenge.

“Today we opened and examined all our ammunition, which had been secured in leaden canisters. These canisters contain four pounds of powder each and eight of lead. Had it not been for that happy expedient which I devised of securing the powder by means of lead, we would not have a single charge of powder at this time”.
-Meriwether Lewis, February 1, 1806

"The 52 cylindrical canisters of gun powder were each constructed of 8 pounds of lead, and each was filled with 4 pounds of gunpowder. Each canister was then sealed to make it watertight. After the 4 pounds of powder had all been transferred to powder horns, the remaining 8 pounds of lead was melted and molded into musket and rifle balls. Packing the gunpowder in these lead containers had been Lewis' idea. By storing the powder in the lead canisters, space was saved, and the gunpowder supply kept dry."

CS
 
I have not hunted game larger than white tail deer or hogs, but I do know that these are easily penetrated with soft lead. I have access to hard and soft lead, but because I found better round ball accuracy and ease of loading in rifles with soft, this is what I use for target and hunting use. My hard lead is generally used for cartridge guns or conicals.

I do recall the Bevel Brothers mentioning better results from soft lead balls and know that is what is used by almost all chunk gun shooters.

CS
 
I use wheel weights and pure lead. My hunting loads are pure lead. Use the wheel weights for play. Seem to be close in performance but if I shoot at two deer this year why take a chance.
 
One of the most interesting points in "Undauted Courage" == Steven Ambrose's book about the Lewis and Clark expedition is that when they returned from the West Coast, they had enough powder and lead to make the trip again. Great planning in my estimation.
 

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