When to Cap while hunting Elk.

[2ELK]

I hope to be ML Elk Hunting this Fall in CO. My only ML hunting experience was on a successful elk hunt using an Inline. I will be using a Percussion GPR .54, and I wanted some opinions on when I should place the cap on the nipple. I have read accounts of putting a cap on the nipple and carefully lowering the hammer down on the cap. This seems a bit dangerous. I can see putting the cap on while sitting on a stand, but what about when I am stalking though the woods or brush? Any opinion or experience would be helpful.

 

[Tony Logan]

I dont know about elk. but my cap is on and my gun in the half cock position, whenever I am on a deer stand. I take it off to climb up and down the tree. I usually put it back on if there is a chance for a shot on the way back out of the woods. I always squeeze the cap to misshape it slightly, then I put it on the nipple. some folks I know have taken shots at game only to find that their cap fell off while they were sitting on a deer stand. I have had some guns where you had to take a knife to scrap the cap off the nipple. That is not ideal, but it stays on.

 

[Vaino]

First off....congratulations on getting a MLer elk permit. I've hunted MLer elk in Colorado for many yrs and seeing we move up to a higher elevation from camp in the dark, my rifle has the cap put on in the light of a lantern in the tent and the hammer is put on half cock. Everyone in the party does the same and this has been a safe practice w/o incident. Never had a cap fall off and most of us sling our rifles and if a loose cap is used, it surely would fall off. Matching a nipple to different brands of caps will ensure a proper fit....Good luck....Fred

 

[hoochiepapa]

My only comment is to snap a couple of caps before loading the rifle. Don't ask how I know that. :redface:

 

[BrownBear]

I have read accounts of putting a cap on the nipple and carefully lowering the hammer down on the cap. This seems a bit dangerous.

You're a very wise man. Talk about a STOOOOPID way to carry a gun! One knock on that hammer and the gun can fire. :bull:

I've hunted with GPRs for years, and cap them and leave them on half cock when I'm hunting solo, uncap them when I get around my hunting pards. I have no qualms about walking around with them capped and on half cock, but I really don't like to see caps on other folk's guns when I'm walking with them, any more than they like to see them on mine.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I have read accounts of putting a cap on the nipple and carefully lowering the hammer down on the cap. This seems a bit dangerous.

You're a very wise man. Talk about a STOOOOPID way to carry a gun! One knock on that hammer and the gun can fire. :bull:

I've hunted with GPRs for years, and cap them and leave them on half cock when I'm hunting solo, uncap them when I get around my hunting pards. I have no qualms about walking around with them capped and on half cock, but I really don't like to see caps on other folk's guns when I'm walking with them, any more than they like to see them on mine.

I don't figure I am stooopid
I cap as soon as I walk in the woods. I leave my hammer down on my cap.... because it can only go off if droped on the hammer, but if left on half cock and the gun is droped on it side,butt stock etc... there is a good chance that the jarring of the fall will set off the production Lyman lock wile if the hammer is left on the cap it has to fall exactly on the hammer hard enough to snap the cap( very unlikley).I haven't see it happen with a Lyman rifle but it happened to a buddy who hunts with a T.C. hawken and he now carries the hammer down on the cap.
I have killed 22 elk in the last 22 years this way except for the two I have killed with a flint lock.
In that time I have slipped in the woods dropping my rifle only once and was damn glad that the hammer was resting on the nipple because of the jarring the rifle took on the steep dark timber rocky slope I was still hunting on.
It's a primitive rifle and you can't make it fool proof, YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP YOU'RE WITS ABOUT YOU AT ALL TIMES!!


:thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Google up "Kap Kover"...its an ideal combination waterproof / safety device for sidelock caplocks...had them on all my caplocks before switching to Flint

 

[TGJaeger]

"It's a primitive rifle and you can't make it fool proof, YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP YOU'RE WITS ABOUT YOU AT ALL TIMES!!"

That is one of the reasons that I like the rock locks better. I can put a toothpick in the touch hole and a cover on the frizzen and feel safer than a bare cap on the nipple.

 

[Bill Hall]

I consider carrying a capped rifle on halfcock the best balance between safety and effectiveness while hunting. Halfcock is the only safety incorporated into a M/L, without adding attachments like the cap cover. Plus, you only have one click back with the hammer when drawing down on game. Nothing to think about, just pull back and shoot. The absolute worst thing you could do is carry the rifle uncapped, assuming you could cap it while an elk heard explodes through the woods in front of you, :shocked2: though that would be really fun to watch.

The tip about popping a couple of caps before loading is ALWAYS a good idea, but of course do it before you get to your hunting area. Another tip is to check the tightness of the cap on the nipple by pulling on it with your fingernails. If it's loose, pinch it and re-seat it, or seat it with by letting the hammer down on it, carefully and slowly, then returning the hammer back to halfcock. Some caps fit looser than others. I think more than a few of us have found we were hunting with an uncapped rifle, due to a loose cap falling off. Bill

 

[gearheart]

I have a leather disc about the size of a nickel. A hole is in the edge for a thong tied to the trigger guard. the disc goes over the cap with the hammer down on it to hold it in place. When I pull the hammer back to shoot the disc falls out of the way on the thong. PC/HC? probably not, but when you read the accounts of how many folks were killed on the wagon trains by their own guns it is obvious that a little extra thought about safety is a better idea than just watch what you're doing. :thumbsup:

 

[Skychief]

I have read accounts of putting a cap on the nipple and carefully lowering the hammer down on the cap. This seems a bit dangerous.

You're a very wise man. Talk about a STOOOOPID way to carry a gun! One knock on that hammer and the gun can fire. :bull:

I've hunted with GPRs for years, and cap them and leave them on half cock when I'm hunting solo, uncap them when I get around my hunting pards. I have no qualms about walking around with them capped and on half cock, but I really don't like to see caps on other folk's guns when I'm walking with them, any more than they like to see them on mine.

I don't figure I am stooopid
I cap as soon as I walk in the woods. I leave my hammer down on my cap.... because it can only go off if droped on the hammer, but if left on half cock and the gun is droped on it side,butt stock etc... there is a good chance that the jarring of the fall will set off the production Lyman lock wile if the hammer is left on the cap it has to fall exactly on the hammer hard enough to snap the cap( very unlikley).I haven't see it happen with a Lyman rifle but it happened to a buddy who hunts with a T.C. hawken and he now carries the hammer down on the cap.
I have killed 22 elk in the last 22 years this way except for the two I have killed with a flint lock.
In that time I have slipped in the woods dropping my rifle only once and was damn glad that the hammer was resting on the nipple because of the jarring the rifle took on the steep dark timber rocky slope I was still hunting on.
It's a primitive rifle and you can't make it fool proof, YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP YOU'RE WITS ABOUT YOU AT ALL TIMES!!


:thumbsup:

I'm with Greenmtnboy.

This is how I have carried a caplock while hunting for ~25 years now. Right or wrong, I don't see me carrying one any different anytime soon when a shot at game might present itself. I think GMB makes some pretty good observations in his post.

When not searching for a shot at my quarry, I am the first guy to remove his cap too.

Skychief.

 

[alex efremenko]

Half cock IS NOT A SAFETY.It is merely a notch which allows the gun to be carried primed/capped.
Anyone who thinks otherwise might want to rethink it.
Or take apart your lock and look at the wee piece of metal that holds the hammer there.If you want safety, Use a hammer stall,Tompion ,or build a lock which incorporates a safety as some originals did.Remember the term"primitive weapon"

Do i carry my peice primed & at half cock ? yes i do.And i carry a flintlock on more days than most people get to be outdoors.
I dont mean to appear rude,But sometime these threads just push a right button on me.This one did it........

Alex E.

 

[paulvallandigham]

When I hunted with a percussion rifle, I didn't do a few things, that others here seem to do all the time.

a. I don't "BUST" brush. Instead, I look for and follow game trails. I don't bust brush because I don't want to telegraph my location to every animal within 1/4 mile!

b. I don't move fast. Again the noise factor. MOVE AS SLOW AS A TREE.

c. I don't carry my gun with the hammer on the cap when moving. I instead put the hammer on half cock, and either put my dominant hand( the one that will pull the trigger) BEHIND THE HAMMER to prevent it from moving back out of the half-cock notch, OR in front of and ON TOP OF THE NECK OF THE HAMMER, to prevent any brush from lifting the hammer up, and OUT OF the half-cock notch, then dropping it to fire the gun.

I do think you can buy the kind of device RB suggests, or make your own using a .30 carbine cartridge casing. I also think the idea of using a thick, soft disc of leather, rubber, felt, etc. on top of the cap, with the hammer lowered down on to the disc will also work as a "Safety" if you insist on doing "a,b,&c", above. :shocked2: :hmm:

Putting the hammer down on your capped nipple when Sitting, is safe enough, given those circumstances. It makes no sense to do the same thing when walking around.

In the event of a fall, or slip as you are walking you not only lose control of the gun, and your balance, but you lose control of the muzzle of the gun.

In the event of an UNINTENDED DISCHARGE, you set yourself up for an UNINTENDED HIT! :shocked2: :shocked2: :nono: :shake: :barf: :redface: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

BTW: You can teach yourself how to fall and not fire your gun. Obviously, keeping your finger off the trigger IS FUNDAMENTAL. But, even with exposed hammer guns, you can learn to control them when you are falling. I have my Hunter Safety Students practice falls-front, back, and both sides, holding a broom instead of a gun, so they learn how to keep that muzzle pointed in a safe direction, regardless of the direction of the fall or slip. Keeping the hammer on half cock, and either jamming the web or index finger against the back of the hammer, or using the backside of my hand over the neck of the hammer while wrapping my large hands around the barrel and stock has served me well. If you have small hands, I recommend holding the gun with your web, or side of the index finger behind the hammer. :hmm:

 

[larry wv]

On half cock and capped till I stop for the day. I change caps if the weather is bad. If nice still change about noon or so. Caps are cheap. Hang fires or no fires suck. I use a rock lock about all the time and its always primed hunting. Larry

 

[Skychief]

Someone needs to try the following experiment...

Seat the hammer on a capped nipple, then strike blows upon the hammer with increasing force to see how hard a hammer must be hit to detonate the cap. If I had a gun that I didn't mind buggering up the hammer with such an experiment, I would give it a try. I would not doubt that the results might be surprising (one way or the other). One could then extrapolate if said gun would/could fire if dropped from waist height.

Any volunteers? Where's the Bevel brothers when ya need them? :idunno:

Respectfully submitted, Skychief. :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

The leather buffer mentioned above is a very good way to avoid problems, I banged around an old CVA fitted this way and could not get it to go off,a soft piece about 1/4" thick works well.

 

[Dave K]

About 1980, two friends an I each bought T/C 45 Hawkens. We shot them every weekend for awhile that summer. Then in about a 3 week period, each gun broke it's sear while on 1/2 cock and each gun fired. Each time it scared the heck out us. Thank God the muzzles were in a safe direction, but I would never consider a 1/2 cock as a safety. For the heck of it, I have placed the hammer down on the cap and tried to get it to fire by striking the hammer with a piece of wood or my hand. I couldn't make it fire, but I don't trust it either. My guns are capped or primed when it is legal to do so. On another note, I shoot allot of SxS's in perc. I have had the firing of one lock, set off the other lock when it was on 1/2 cock. Don't trust a 1/2 cock! You ever wonder what is the meaning behind the saying "running around 1/2 cocked"?

 

[roundball]

You ever wonder what is the meaning behind the saying "running around 1/2 cocked"?

And to further support your point, I believe the saying is actually:

"going off half cocked"

 

[longcruise]

And to further support your point, I believe the saying is actually:

"going off half cocked"

That's the way I've always heard it. For those of us in the ml fraternity it is self explanatory said either way. I have heard the "going off half cocked" phrase used many times by people who had no idea what it meant. Always wondered what they thought it meant. Never have bothered to ask though. :haha:

I think GM Boy and Paul both make excellent points. I've always carried my cappers with a cap on and in the half cock. Always trusting my own caution and judgement. OTOH, I have taught five friends and family members muzzle loading and still have more grandchildren to teach. It seems like I would be careless to teach them my way of doing it. I have no doubt that lock failure, dropping the gun or brain failure could result in the gun being set off.

Most of us are well aware that a cap lock revolver can be set off by dropping it on the hammer. Same goes for the old Colt SA revolvers. Early model Ruger SA revolvers could go off as well. It is said that both cartridge and cap lock revolvers were carried with only five cylinders loaded for that very reason. It's the way I carry my cap lock revolver, so, why not exercise the same care with a cap lock rifle?

Over the past few years I've been persuading friends and family members to remove the lanyards from their powder horn stoppers. Just because there is a chance of a spark entering the horn if the plug is not replaced. Before removing my own lanyard I caught myself several times having failed to replace it in the horn. :shocked2: It's pretty hard to forget where it goes when you are holding it in your teeth! :haha: Horns have gone off. :shocked2: :shocked2:

So, now I'll resolve to begin a new campaign to train myself and others to precautions as to the cap on the gun. I'd go the GM Boy route and trust my own common sense, but can't be sure that it can always be taught as easily as observed by myself. Further, the possibility of the hammer being partly pulled back while in the brush seems like a real possibility. Also, I have to recall the time I accidently dropped my rifle with cap and on half cock out of a tree stand. :shocked2: It did not go off, but did land butt first pointing straight up at me. :shocked2: . What if the hammer had hit a limb on the way down? :shocked2: :hmm:

So, It will be some sort of cap cover, just because it's not usually practical to hunt uncapped and cap for a shot. Maybe paul can post a little more about how to make that cover from a .30 carbine case. Then there's always the piece of leather too. One way or another, I'm changing the way I do it.

 

[Brent]

Google up "Kap Kover"...its an ideal combination waterproof / safety device for sidelock caplocks...had them on all my caplocks before switching to Flint

+ a bunch!

Carrying with hammer down on a live cap will not happen around me. I will not hunt with anyone that does that. 1/2 cock capped I can abide by and do myself. Hammer down is not acceptable. Experiment with it sometime and see for yourself.