Where do you draw the line?

[tenngun]

I can understand the enthusiast clubs and events where you are judged on your gear in a sort of competition to be historically correct. But that one story posted about the feller who got booted from a hunting club lease for carrying a rifle they thought was too modern but was really old?? Sounds kind of like a shooting version of a nerdy Star Wars convention that take themselves a little too seriously.

And when didn’t you think we were a bunch of history nerds?
The point is to have fun. Because I put on funny clothes and try and have guns that look right to the era doesn’t mean I expect you to do the same.
The first breechloaders go back at least to the fifteenth century. We have ‘modern guns’ including a sixteen shot lever action Wheelock.
but
If you have a ml club you might not want one of these in the shoot. As it’s not an ml, even if it’s two centuries or more old
Or you might be ok with it. The club sets its rules.
Even a bench copy will fail at some point to be historically correct
We are all just old fat kids playing cowboys and Indians here

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

And when didn’t you think we were a bunch of history nerds?
The point is to have fun. Because I put on funny clothes and try and have guns that look right to the era doesn’t mean I expect you to do the same.
The first breechloaders go back at least to the fifteenth century. We have ‘modern guns’ including a sixteen shot lever action Wheelock.
but
If you have a ml club you might not want one of these in the shoot. As it’s not an ml, even if it’s two centuries or more old
Or you might be ok with it. The club sets its rules.
Even a bench copy will fail at some point to be historically correct
We are all just old fat kids playing cowboys and Indians here

I really didn't intend for my comment to be taken the way it appears that you have and I apologize for not conveying what I was thinking in the best way.

I wasn't aware there exists competitions involving how historically correct your entire load-out is. It's actually pretty interesting and I certainly am not looking to poke fun at those of you who engage in it at that level. I was more or less poking a little fun at the people in that particular situation who gave a fellow some guff for a rifle older than any of theirs thinking it wasn't period correct enough for them.

Honestly, no offense intended

 

[sheriff john]

I suppose, when you really get picky, there'd be "historically correct" folks going barefoot, drinking out of creeks, wearing several layers of clothes with holes arranged so the good cloth covers the holes in another layer. No refrigeration away from ice houses - either meat got salted/smoked , eaten quickly in warm weather, or they didn't mind a few maggots. Travelling? - drink outa creeks. Some H/C food was good, some I wouldn't put in my hand.

False teeth? - nope, just rotten ones or holes. Deerskins got brain tanned and squaw-chewed. Laces should be made from groundhog leather. Beeswax candles, coal oil, whale oil, etc. People didn't bathe much in winter, so to be historically correct - you should have b.o.

The stuff in the original post? I still have a couple of those, prefer to shoot originals or copies of originals but sure don't see a problem with folks enjoying themselves with them. Having fun is good.

 

[nightwolf1974]

The stuff in the original post? I still have a couple of those, prefer to shoot originals or copies of originals but sure don't see a problem with folks enjoying themselves with them. Having fun is good.

Agree 100% ! I don't have any originals, and honestly I'm happy with reproductions. I have some BP stuff that falls into a couple of those slots mentioned, and I still enjoy them. I don't shoot competition, I'm not part of any BP shooting clubs, so it is what it is.....

 

[JamesA]

I am sitting here just musing about what our ancestors would think about all this. Given a choice between their 1765 smooth bore flintlock and a .223 semi automatic unmentionable with a couple 30 round magazines, what do you think they would choose?

Specially if they had about 2 or 3 dozen really pi$$ed off native Americans coming at them with hatchets swinging, knives slicing, and bows twanging. Don't get me wrong, reenactments and "traditional" weekend gatherings are great. One of the last events we attended as spectators before we moved was a Civil War reenactment. I love that field artillery. (Note: The temperature was in the high 90's that day and all those traditionally correct uniforms looked like they were standing in [a very hot place]). I just have a problem with a few snobs making it sound like if you aren't using historically correct "stuff", you are a lesser human being and shouldn't be allowed in the same room as them. Some of us aren't rich beyond our wildest dreams, we can't afford all this stuff or the real thing. My reproductions (Hawken, 1858 Remington) work just fine for me and give me much pleasure and an attachment to my ancestors. Other than that, have at it.

 

[TFoley]

Back when I owned a real Lancaster long rifle, made by a famous gunsmith of the day, I never needed to dress up. All the history I wanted was right there, in my two hands.

 

[Capnball]

Just curious and to keep from hi jacking a different thread

How HC/PC are you comfortable with.

I have been known to leave my keys in the truck and use the door code in order to not have anything modern on my person at an event.

Are you ok with a plastic/delrin/fiberglass ramrod?
Ok with a plastic stock?
Ok with fiber optic sights?
Ok with a scope?
Ok with an in-line

Not for others just for yourself.

Maybe this should be a poll?

I think if somebody is going through the trouble of putting on a period correct event and has that information in their offering for participants, then that's the standard that should be adhered to. As far as spectators go, I'd take any effort on their part to be period correct as a compliment and encourage it but completely understanding if they're just enjoying a day out and curious.
We should be welcoming and ready to answer questions. I think alot of people who go through the trouble of creating a period correct persona would love to talk about it. We all started someplace.
Neil

 

[French Colonial]

Please read the part that says "Not for others, just for yourself"
That means what are you comfortable with, not judging others, and yes, I am a history nerd.

When I shoot at a monthly club shoot most of the gentlemen do not dress HC/PC and no one cares including me.

The only time anyone judges any one is at a juried event, and what can I say, it is a juried event after all. If you do not want to be judged, do not apply, why take offence?

BUT! in my experience we are welcoming to anyone who wants to learn how things were lived. Best advise read, read read.

 

[UndeadPoet]

There must be a Modern In-Line site somewhere on the web.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com

 

[08Desert Trapper]

I have been on woods walks where they went through your kit and deducted points for modern stuff

not sure if anyone still does such things

Hey I got a couple Rendezvous‘s Virginia West Virginia and Pennsylvania and I know several groups in those states do give you extra points for having. Correct tools in your bag because they want membership they don’t deduct points for having none. Correct tools as long as everything is Kapaa site and lotta places they require some type of eyewear beer. Correct or not and hearing protection which is never. Correct but very very good thing to have hearing connection I agree with a gentleman at the front of the shred that said this is a traditional muzzleloading site if you want to know about nontraditional stuff go to modern forum and that’s where that really belongs

 

[LSLibelo]

I prefer HC but since my lead chucker BPs are a .50 TC Hawken smoothbore backed up by pair of ROAs I'm not participating in HC required events, except as a spectator.

As for PC I'd prefer to share my camp with Rabid Skunks.

As to the items listed I use a steel ramrod, I have a tendency to break the original TC woods while loading.

If the rules allow I don't see any issues in a modern event.

I agree in prohibiting them in a traditional historical event, unless validated proof that they were available at the time the was to represent.

 

[SirFrancis]

I’m not a member of a club, I shoot recreationally by myself.

That said, I think a hard no all of those, with the possible exception of a Delrin rod which I’ve seen many on here recommend as insurance against a broken wooden rod (and possibly broken wooden rod through the hand) when in the field. I personally still use wood, but…. would absolutely not blame someone if they were to use Delrin.

 

[59sharps]

There is a time and place for everything.
I have no problem w it. My range my rules. Rules are simple Be safe be respectful. No shooting glass no shooting at the storage box or using it for a target stand.
think having to use the term unmentionable is ridicules. .

 

[doubleset]

think having to use the term unmentionable is ridicules. .

I don't think it's a requirement. But I do think it's a childish pretension that accomplishes nothing -- since everyone knows what it means, and so using the term "unmentionable" mentions what it's supposed to avoid mentioning. But I guess people think it's really cute to do this.

 

[Jake2454]

i am not into re enacting so yes to all.....a flintlock is a flintock cap n ball the same

 

[Robby]

I don't think it's a requirement. But I do think it's a childish pretension that accomplishes nothing -- since everyone knows what it means, and so using the term "unmentionable" mentions what it's supposed to avoid mentioning. But I guess people think it's really cute to do this.

I can remember when in polite company 'unmentionables' referred to a women's undergarments. Hey, I'm not judging!
Robby

 

[Cruzatte]

No to all of the above. None of them are necessary.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

How HC/PC are you comfortable with.

Are you ok with a plastic/delrin/fiberglass ramrod?
Ok with a plastic stock?
Ok with fiber optic sights?
Ok with a scope?
Ok with an in-line

No
No
No
No
NO

 

[Blacksmoke]

i gave up bow hunting with training wheels 35 years ago. Still hunt with the recurve I bought in 1988.

 

[David Veale]

Seems to me that we shouldn't be questioning what level of modern substitutes we can get away with. Instead, we should be striving to experience the past as much as possible (I'll grant myself exceptions for dysentery and roundball wounds). I suppose not everyone is driven by the same desires in this hobby, but a desire to experience and understand the skills of my ancestors is certainly near the top of my list. I'm always amazed by the suggestions I read here to forego the authentic. To me, that cheapens the experience and destroys the reason to engage in it.

Granted, I haven't had the time to make all the HC/PC items I'd like to, but I do recognize that as a shortcoming rather than something I'm able to sneak in.