Why cushion wads?

[pmwest]

In researching my limited library of pre-1865 writings, I do not see reference to using a cushion wad between the over powder wad and the shot. Later publications reference the use of a cushion wad in a cartridge to fill unused space for proper shell length and crimp. Most modern writing about muzzleloading shotgun loading calls for the use of the cushion wad. Is this borrowed from cartridge loading?

My experience is that cushion wads cause more problems in a muzzleloader than they solve.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Exactly :thumbsup: waste of time IMO and experiance. :thumbsup:

Brits.

 

[Dave K]

Depends on what you are shooting and how you plan to lube the bore. For repeated shooting, I will be using a lubed cushion. For one shot like turkey hunting, I will not use a cushion. Experience at the patterning board will tell you what your gun likes and also what style of loading is important to you. I tried many different ways and the way I do it, works for me, based on my experience. But, that is not saying it works for you.

 

[roundball]

Depends on what you are shooting and how you plan to lube the bore. For repeated shooting, I will be using a lubed cushion. For one shot like turkey hunting, I will not use a cushion. Experience at the patterning board will tell you what your gun likes and also what style of loading is important to you. I tried many different ways and the way I do it, works for me, based on my experience. But, that is not saying it works for you.

Same here...if I'm going to possibly have repeated shots like in a dove field or for clay targets I don't want to bother with wiping between shots...so I use loads with .28/.20ga Circle Fly 1/2" prelubed fiber wads, or some loads with a pair of Oxyoke 1/8" prelubed wool wads.

 

[BrownBear]

And much the same here. Lube and no wiping.

In the two guns I have the most experience with, I also found I could wrangle the best patterns with the cushions. I admit a prejudice carried over from my ancient mentor, but starting from there it's always worked out that way. He felt that he got less shot deformation, along the lines of the collapsible bases in modern plastic wads for the same reason. For proof he had me recover wads downrange, The face of them is always heavily indented from the shot. Good enough for me.

 

[August West]

I use fairly thin, lubed, felt wads, I'm sure they cushion somewhat but not like the big fiber cushion wads. I have been using bore butter on them but after finding this forum think I am going to mix up some moose snot and try that out. I shoot 1 or 2 OS cards, a lubed felt wad, another OS card then my shot and OS card to hold it all together, sounds complicated but it is not really and it patterns very well in both my guns.

I also use coin wrappers, penny or dime, to carry premeasured powder or shot, I fold the end and glue, fill with measured powder or shot fold the other end and glue, works very well. When the shooting is hot and heavy, I rip the top off the powder, dump it in the barrel, cram the wrapper in over it, rip the top off the shot pour it, then ram the wrapper to hold it all together. Doesn't pattern as good as my regular load but is fast and I have killed lots of game with it. Chris

 

[DanChamberlain]

I do use a fiber cushion wad, but it's cut to 1/4 inch thickness so I can bend it past my full choked barrels. I use a mixture of 50% beeswax and 50% bore butter melted into the cushion. I drop my powder and run a couple overshot cards down, the cushion wad, my shot and a couple more overshot cards to top it off.

Fouling stays soft and everything loads easily. 60 grains of fffg and 1 and a quarter oz of #6 and my patterns are great!

Dan

 

[shootemup]

60 grains of fffg and 1 and a quarter oz of #6 and my patterns are great!

I think more patterns are blown by 90- and 100-grain powder loads than by cushion wads. I can see using that much powder for turkeys or (maybe) waterfowl, and I do realize there are ways to load and pattern heavy loads well.

For me, I use wonder wads in my 12-gauge when I load for turkey. For small game I mostly use about 65 grains in a 20-gauge fowler, with cushion wads and slightly more shot (volume equivalent) than powder.

Where I like fiber cushion wads best is when shooting roundball from a smoothbore. I am a believer in the theory that the wad will give a little, allowing the ball to sink into it some. This helps to keep the ball centered as it moves up the bore. Not a new theory and I'm sure everybody here has heard it, my experience just bears it out.

That's my .02, others' experiences may vary. :v

:hatsoff:
Spot

 

[CoyoteJoe]

You are correct in saying that many gun writers try to transfer experience with modern smokeless shotshells into muzzleloading where it really does not apply. However, there are many very old references to cutting wads from old saddle pads and such. Even the common use of tow for wadding would in effect provide a cushion.
I've never found an exception the the rule of V.M.Starr who said "you cannot get better patterns than those obtained by the use of two hard cards between powder and shot".
That's fine if one fires only a couple of shots per day but as others have said it is nice to have a lubed cushion wad for extended shooting sessions.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Lubing the bore( with a greased cushion wad) Behind the shot, is a little like letting the horse out of the barn door before trying to saddle it. The harm has already been done, in the form of leaving lead streaks in the bore. Those streaks do not come out easily, much less with the next hard wad fired over them. The Grease is Not going to dissolve the lead either.

I much prefer to grease the bore AFTER seating the OS cards on the shot, or better yet, use some kind of Shot cup to keep the pellets from rubbing against the sides of the bore altogether. Grease the outside of the cup before loading it, and you will have enough lube in the bore to soften the fouling that follows the shot.

Better year, use Makesumsmoke's idea of using strips of pillow ticking, lubed in an vegetable or mineral oil, to form a cup for the shot. The oil in the fabric greases the entire bore as the cup and shot are seated on the OP wad, while the fabric is thick enough to keep the pellets from rubbing flats on themselves while leaving lead streaks on the bore. The oil in the fabric holds the fabric against the side of the bore while you load the shot into the cup, making this an easy fabrication to be done in the field. At most you might need a 'short starter" to push a strip of fabric into the muzzle, to form the cup.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Paul, the bore is lubed when you shove down your lubed wad.....that's why you use a lubed wad...... :slap:

 

[roundball]

And the last thing in the world I want to do is use a lubed wad to eliminate having to do extra steps like wiping the bore after every shot...then turn right around and take those same extra steps to run a lube patch down bore AFTER every load has been seated.
Sounds like a solution in search of a problem that hasn't existed for...oh...200-300 years so far?

 

[BrownBear]

Whew.... I thought for a minute there that it was me who was confused.

 

[pmwest]

If I may restate the question before the discussion goes too far south”¦This is not what you put down the bore of your shotgun, by WHY you do it the way that you do. Did you learn from modern books and instruction manuals or historic records and documents? Or better yet, did you learn from techniques passed down from previous generations.

WW Greener wrote of using a 3/8” lubricated felt wad between the over powder card and shot in a cartridge to “clean the fouling from the previous shots” but this was written in 1891 regarding blackpowder shot shells. Stonehenge wrote in 1859 of greased felt being the best choice for muzzleloading shot guns. Two greased felt wads between powder and shot and a thin cardboard over the shot. No specific statement was made to the thickness of the wads but some of the materials referenced would lead me to believe that about 1/8” was used.

I would be interested in any books published during the muzzleloading caplock shotgun era that give specific reference to loading and components used.

 

[dbutch]

I

My experience is that cushion wads cause more problems in a muzzleloader than they solve.

Wild shot..Same here.never found one that worked!

 

[Britsmoothy]

You are correct in saying that many gun writers try to transfer experience with modern smokeless shotshells into muzzleloading where it really does not apply. However, there are many very old references to cutting wads from old saddle pads and such. Even the common use of tow for wadding would in effect provide a cushion.
I've never found an exception the the rule of V.M.Starr who said "you cannot get better patterns than those obtained by the use of two hard cards between powder and shot".
That's fine if one fires only a couple of shots per day but as others have said it is nice to have a lubed cushion wad for extended shooting sessions.

CJ, I thought Mr Starr shot at clay events, that would imply alot of shots.
I have shot all day with just cards with no problems. If the air is dry and the foul gets crusty I thumb from a tin some natural fat mixed up lube on a card just in the muzzle and then put a couple more thin cards on top. Real simple.
My new to my P,Hale two band Enfield smooth .58 and 1oz on thin cards shoots a real tight pattern to 30yds. I took a rabbit recently with just it's head and shoulders showing over a log at 33 paces with just three thin cards as a wad :thumbsup:

Brits.

 

[gordy]

Mr. Starr was known to be one of the greatest breaker of clays. I'm certain He fired more rounds in a days shooting then most of us think about ! :hmm: I've heard a great number of shooters praise the use of a lubed/cushion wad , and many that felt it a waste of time .
I've tried several different ways of conxtructing a load and , to me , Mr. Starr's system has been at leastr as good if not better than the rest . :thumbsup: This of corse is just my opinion and you certainly may think differently :v

 

[CoyoteJoe]

No doubt Mr. Starr had a solution to the fouling issue, I just don't know what it was. :grin:

 

[pmwest]

No doubt Mr. Starr had a solution to the fouling issue, I just don't know what it was. :grin:

Mr. Starr’s techniques were a little “different” when compared what we would consider common practice for loading a shotgun. I am not sure that his system will work if you only use a few recommendations instead of the whole technique. He advocated the use of Fg powder for larger bore shotguns and his loads were slightly more powder than shot by volume. His wad system was two OP, one OS. All three were 3/32” hard cardboard (no true measure of density or mention of diameter). His method of lubrication was to spit down the barrel after loading the shot but before ramming the OS card.

“Now do what I tell you and no fooling_pucker up and spit down each barrel after the shot charge before you put in the wads the spit will soften up the fouling from the former charge and the wad will act like a squeege and clean the barrel each time you load and you can shoot all day without fouling troubles as long as you spit each time.”

I have tried this system of loading and loading, except that I used Ballistol as lube instead of spit, and it works well.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I was reluctant to mention it here but since you bring it up, I've used the spit method myself and it does work very well but is pretty sure to get you thrown off a public range. :haha:
These days we're not even supposed to blow down the bore of a just fired gun, imagine the outcry if one were seen spitting down the bore of a loaded gun. :shake: