Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders???

[doverdog]

I shoot at a number of woods walk shoots, courses through the woods with the targets being metal swingers. These shoots are run mainly for .22 rifles, and .22 and centerfire handguns, but also allow muzzleloaders to shoot at the centerfire pistol targets. Very few shooters turn out to shoot the ML. Lots of shooters stop and watch when we are shooting and invariably they express surprise at the fact the gun always fires, with no misfires or flashes in the pan. They also mention how much trouble it is to clean after each session. I have come to the conclusion that a good many people don't shoot ML's because they are too lazy to clean the gun after shooting, and have no idea how to get good ignition. A surprising number state they own a ML but just don't shoot it, except for some deer hunting. This is followed by them stating how many opportunities they had, but were not successful due to the gun not going off, or just flat missing due to lack of practice. It's too bad our sport is missing out on a lot of shooters because of laziness, or a reluctance to seek help with a problem.

 

[Old Salt]

It's too bad our sport is missing out on a lot of shooters because of laziness,

I understand your sentiment but I doubt that unmotivated people will bring anything positive to traditional ML interests.

Old Salt

 

[bigbore442001]

I would say it is time. There are a lot of shooting activities that people would like to get into but lest face it, modern life rears its ugly head in the form of second jobs to pay mortages, taking kids to soccer, etc...

If life was a bit slower, maybe there would be more people into it.

 

[RiverRat]

It's too bad our sport is missing out on a lot of shooters because of laziness,

I understand your sentiment but I doubt that unmotivated people will bring anything positive to traditional ML interests.

Old Salt

Well said. I woud not trade the time I spend cleaning my guns with anything.

 

[Roy]

This is followed by them stating how many opportunities they had, but were not successful due to the gun not going off, or just flat missing due to lack of practice.quote]

This is when I say "Maybe if you'd shoot it more often you wouldn't have those problems". And leave it at that.

 

It all goes back to the ole Work Ethic!

Lazy undiciplined kids that are raised in front of the TV and not required to participace in real life turn into lazy undisciplined teenagers that are addicted to vidio games and refuse to do schoolwork or help around the house in any way. Unprepared for the adult world they turn into young adults that drink too much, party too hard and have no sense of responsibility but full awareness of their entitlement. They turn into middle age couch potatoes who are barely hanging onto a job and only motivated by fear of losing support for their big screen TV and double sixpack a night habit.

They only do something if it is not too hard, and they don't have to get off of the couch.

Would you actually want them on your range???

 

[tamara]

After all I read about misfires, and cleaning, dry loading, double charging, breaking ramrods, and just the idea of playing around with the biting end of a gun, I have to admit that I was discouraged, if not a little scared. Nevertheless, I tried it anyway. :youcrazy:

After a little practice, I figured how to get the wads into a modified choke without killing my thumbs, and got a little loading rhythm.

I was surprised at how easy hot water & soap cleaning was. I thought it was going to be scrubbing forever. Just a couple times though, and the patch was clean!

At least for me anyway, muzzleloading is sort of intimidating because of all the stories and warnings about what can go wrong. All the more reason why you can't be lazy or inattentive.

 

[dmills]

Be careful what you ask for!

If they're lazy, afraid to ask questions, just bought the ML to extend the deer season, or or otherwise unmotivated, they probably would not add much to the sport anyway.

I have seen some sports (like fly-fishing) overrun by such types.

 

[Maestro]

It's too bad our sport is missing out on a lot of shooters because of laziness,

I understand your sentiment but I doubt that unmotivated people will bring anything positive to traditional ML interests.

Old Salt

Well said. I woud not trade the time I spend cleaning my guns with anything.

And "well said" too, RiverRat. Some people just don't enjoy doing things - they think that anything except being a couch potato is drudgery. I don't get it. I have friends ask me how I do so much... have a full-time job, help homeschool two little ones, direct a chuch choir, practice piano, practice shooting (gun & bow), hunt, fly fish, tie flies, - turn off the TV and start getting busy!

 

[guncobbler]

Are we sure that we want to criticize those shooters who don't participate in the sport with the same enthusiasm that most of the forum members do? The shooting sports are a declining activity and we need all the participants that we can find. If someone notices what we do and wonders how we do it we've already got the hook in their mouth. We shouldn't give the line a quick jerk that leaves them feeling looked down on. This forum had to ban discussions of those "other" kinds of ML guns because we couldn't agree to share the sand box. If we keep on driving away potential allies and future traditional shooters how many will be shooting a ML or any firearm in the future. We were all pilgrims in this sport at one time and none of us invented the muzzleloader all by our selves. Keep the door open to the next guy or gal and smile when they appear at the doorway. GC

 

[roundball]

Are we sure that we want to criticize those shooters who don't participate in the sport with the same enthusiasm that most of the forum members do? The shooting sports are a declining activity and we need all the participants that we can find. If someone notices what we do and wonders how we do it we've already got the hook in their mouth. We shouldn't give the line a quick jerk that leaves them feeling looked down on. This forum had to ban discussions of those "other" kinds of ML guns because we couldn't agree to share the sand box. If we keep on driving away potential allies and future traditional shooters how many will be shooting a ML or any firearm in the future. We were all pilgrims in this sport at one time and none of us invented the muzzleloader all by our selves. Keep the door open to the next guy or gal and smile when they appear at the doorway. GC

Perfectly said!
:hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

I think what you said is part of the problem. Another part is recruitment and image. I have not seen recruitment on a local level. What I've seen as far as recruitment has been mostly on forums such as these. Unfortunately, that only recruits people who are already interested.

I understand that organized matches such as SASS have side black powder matches. I think such side matches exposes shooters to this sport.

The other thing I see is the bickering within the ML community. A real turn off. Turns some folks away to see Traditional and Inline ML squabbles. Even within the Traditional you see debates on what is traditional. On the Inline you have the Real black vs Substitute vs smokeless debates.

I joined the SASS because when I checked it out, I was greeted with a hand shake and a Welcome Pardna! Saw that friendliness at the various SASS matches. The friendliness and politeness extended to everyone and not just those dressed up. Kids, wives, strangers alike were made to feel welcome. SASS has it's share of bickering but you don't see much of it out in the open. Makes one want to be apart of that.

I was at ML gathering but didn't get the same welcome feeling as I did with SASS. Maybe I went to the wrong one. The folks there were polite but not outwardly to the point where you wanted to learn more or get involved.

Don't mis-understand me. I've met a lot of people I would call friends just from this Forum and other forums. I just feel we need to see more of that in the public eye too.

How about ML clubs sponsoring public shoots or say the Boyscouts. Also going to schools in costume as a historical charactor and teaching the kids? Recruitment is what I think we need to do. Especially to the next several generations.

I was recently asked if I had a musket because a Professor at the local University wanted someone to teach about it to his class. He was teaching about the Colonial period. Unfortunately, I don't have one. I gave him possilbe names of people who might. Now that would have been a great opportunity. I'll get off my soap box now. :v

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Different strokes for different folks. Take a look at one's own likes and dislikes, question is answered.

 

[bigbore442001]

I'll agree that we can be devisive. We need to keep in mind that the ultimate goal of the anti-gun/anti-freedom crowd is the elimination off all weapons. It doesn't matter if the gun shoots a 223 remington out of an AR-15 or a Brown Bess. We need to be on the same side at all times.

 

[tg]

"Are we sure that we want to criticize those shooters who don't participate in the sport with the same enthusiasm that most of the forum members do?'

I don't think that is the issue, there are copuntless garages and storage sheds full of unused golf clubs, mountain bikes, exercise gear and many other istem that people THOUGHT they would enjoy using then found the effort/time to be more than they were willing or able to put forth, many actvities are somewhat exclusive by nature and if one is not truely interested then the result is non-participation.

 

[akapennypincher]

Very few shooters turn out to shoot the ML. Lots of shooters stop and watch when we are shooting and invariably they express surprise at the fact the gun always fires, with no misfires or flashes in the pan. They also mention how much trouble it is to clean after each session. I have come to the conclusion that a good many people don't shoot ML's because they are too lazy to clean the gun after shooting, and have no idea how to get good ignition.

I find you post very interesting, and will share some first hand experience about what I see at the Public Range where I R/O when customers come out with Flintlock Muzzleloader and start shooting their Flinters.

Customers take notice, watch, and ask questions. If the Muzzleloader Shooter offer the Curious the Opportunity to load, and Shoot their Flinters, the CURIOUS most take the opportunity to do it.

Several have gone always say things like they want a Muzzleloader, or they are going to Buy a Flinter. But few follow through.

Plus the ML Club that shoots one Sunday a Month at the Range is NOT FRIENDLY too Newbees who visit the club because of the interest. So most go away saying them folks are Anti Newbee.

Plus as you said folks is just "too lazy " to deal with the loading, swabbing, wiping the bore, and Cleaning etc. involved with Shooting Muzzleloaders.

Plus the current generation has had ZERO Exposure to Muzzleloader compaired with those who grew up in the 50's & 60's with Davy & Daniel. Kids of today only know AR's, AK's, Glock's, 1911’s Machine-guns and Autoloaders.

Last I will tell the story of when I asked one of the Executive of Ruger and Co at Winter Range a few years back. Why they made an INLINE, as the Company was Perfectly capable of building a Hawkin Percussion Rifle of high quality to selling to those who want to hunt with a Muzzleloader, so they could Hunt the Muzzleloading Season.

My answer was the idea of a Hawkin Type Rifle was actually considered by the Executive at Ruger, including Bill Ruger (who at one time WAS an NMLRA Winter/Western Shoot Supporter).

But a Centerfire Rifle Type design was chosen (aka INLINE), as the buyer would be MORE FAMILIAR with this Design, (as it look like a bolt Action Centerfire Rifle) and it would have MORE/EASIER SALABILITY, than the Foreign Looking Hawkin Type Rife, that had an additional sales obstacle of not looking like what the hunter used in regular hunting season.

 

[jethro224]

I'm sure there are people who don't shoot muzzleloaders because they are lazy, but I doubt that is any where near the main reason.
I think a much bigger reason is a combination of fear and ignorance. That is why I had a muzzleloader in my gun cabinet for YEARS before I ever fired it. Now that I finally did start shooting BP guns, I wish I had been doing it all along.
I always heard how much trouble it was to clean them. I saw a 1858 Remington .44 that was so corroded that the cylinder wouldn't turn. The owner claimed to have taken it shooting once, cleaned it and put it away for a couple of months. When he got it out that is how he found it.
I was scared that I wouldn't get my rifle cleaned right and it would turn into a ruined hunk of rust overnight. In real life, I find it easier and much more pleasant to clean my BP guns than my modern ones.
I had also heard all kinds of stories about how easy it is to blow up your gun or yourself if you don't do everything right. Now that I am several guns and hundreds of shots into the sport, I find this is not a big problem either.
Information is scarce unless you know where to look as are supplies. The Wally Worlds around here don't even stock ANY muzzleloader stuff. Gander Mt. and Dicks each have a short aisle with enough to get ya by. The gunshops might or might not have a few square feet worth of BP supplies and maybe a rifle or 2 (and a 1/2 dozen inlines). Absolutely NOBODY stocks any real black powder.
If it were not for the fact that I got a muzzleloader deer tag, the internet, and the helpful advice of a good buddy (who I met on the internet) my Frontier rifle would still be the only BP gun in my cabinet and would still be dusty too. I applied for the tag on a spur of the moment and got it. Then I asked my buddy for advice since he was the only guy I knew who shoots BP (he lives in Michigan, I'm in Illinois, he was still the closest I knew of) and he turned me on to another forum. I learned a lot from him and from the guys on that forum. I didn't like the politics there, so I went looking and found this forum (MUCH BETTER) and have learned a bunch here too. BUT, a year ago, I never knew all of this existed.
Unfounded fear due to unnecessary ignorance. That's my theory. :v

 

[lyman]

The non ML shooter just don't have the susification and idianteligents usen have and besides were better looking anyways.
Bob

 

[David Teague]

Why don't more people shoot muzzleloaders???

Because they don't have any interest.

None

Nada

Zip

Zeeeeerrrrooooo.

Think about, how many of us hunt? I don't anymore, it's no longer my bag. Not everybody here hunts.
Why don't we all shoot class III weapons? Some of us might, I used to, no longer my bag(and the cost is out of sight for a legal machine gun anymore)
Why don't we all shoot ISCP? The questions can just go on and on.

Those of us who LOVE something are often blinded by that love and can't see that others don't see it in the same light as us.

I love black powder! Cannons, flintlocks, matchlocks, percussion, paper cartridge, black powder cartridge, I shoot em all and just love it... but I'm bright enough to know not everybody shares my love for the stinky stuff, so they shoot ISPC, Long Range Rifle, SASS, skeet, trap, only hunt or even spend their free time trying to ban my guns because they don't like any kind of gun...

That's why more people don't shoot muzzleloaders IMO.

As for local clubs not being friendly... that's just the fact... some people are not there to help anybody but themselves to WIN the match. Just because you own a muzzleloader does not make you a friendlier person than before you got it.

I have a living history group in Alaska and I teach anybody who want's to learn "How to load, shoot, clean and maintain a flintlock" in my group. But somedays I have to slip off the the range by myself and shoot without anybody yaking at me or having to watch a newby with a eagle eye.
I need the zen time alone with my fintlock smoothbore and the center of that target.( I even teach newbies how to fight with a sword and...er... mountain biking the back country.)I do give back a lot of my knowledge in many sports.

I hope that all makes sense... I'm currently sick as a dog and my brain isn't working as well as normal... :shake:

Cheers,

DT

 

[doverdog]

Maybe I should clarify the train of thought in my thinking when I started this thread. I meant to say "Why don't people who already own muzzleloaders shoot them more often." Many shooters around here own flintlocks, just to take advantage of Pennsylvania's ML season. They are the ones I was talking about. I ask many of the people who stop and watch while we are shooting why they don't give the ML a try at the match. The most common answers are that they don't like to clean it, they can't hit anything with it, and they can't get it to go off. This pretty much boils down to the fact they are too lazy, since they don't practice because of the "long time" it takes to clean it, and don't have enough ambition to seek help with learning about the thing. I don't expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to become a dedicated ML shooter, but if you already own one, why not shoot it, at least enough top become proficient enough to ethically hunt with it, if that is your purpose in owning it.