Why the "Skychief" load works?

[CapPopper]

If the shot hit the card head on it might not disturb it but id hazard a guess that the card will flip and tumble..... If that happens and it presses against the side of the shot column the its not a case of it penetrating but being shoved in which case the potential for deflection is much higher

 

[smo]

If the shot hit the card head on it might not disturb it but id hazard a guess that the card will flip and tumble..... If that happens and it presses against the side of the shot column the its not a case of it penetrating but being shoved in which case the potential for deflection is much higher

The shot has to hit the card head on its loaded on top of the shot.

Even if it does flip over and over in the pattern , the power from the blast of powder pushing the more dense shot would either penetrate the paper card or simply blow it out of the way.

I still can’t see the thin paper card deflecting lead shot enough to matter when firing at live game for it not to remain lethal.

 

[smo]

FWIW,

I forget his name, but an American Olympic M-loading trap shooter (Gold medal numerous times I believe) used wads punched out of cardboard.
He used a single card over the powder, and a single card over the shot.
He being so good a shot, was asked about his load on various occasions.
He said that more cards could be used.... If you enjoy making them!
I will look out (as time permits) the known evidence for an over -shot card disrupting the shot pattern,...'On Occasion".
It was a well known phenomenon when rolled turnover cartridges were used.
Well known, but uncommon at best.

Richard.

Richard , I’ve surfed the net looking for such evidence, and have yet found anything to sustain the suspicions.

Mass / Weight X Pressure / Velocity = Penetration

And I’ve heard and read a lot about shot shell crimps and cards having effects on shot and I’m not convinced of that either.

I sure would like to see some footage verifying it.

Like I said I’ve been wrong before.

:idunno:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Overshot cards do not produce donut holes.
https://shotgunreport.com/2014/03/31/donut-patterns/

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Smo,

I have a high -speed photo of this. (Shot disrupted by the over-shot wad). from GT Garwood's book, "Shotguns and Cartridges" If you PM me, & give me your email I will send the photo.
I'm not connected to a picture hosting sight yet, so can't post it here.

Best regards,
Richard.

 

[CapPopper]

Never said donut holes or that it makes big holes in a patteren just that it could disturb a pellet or two which would be enough to disturb the others... Will it make a difference on game... Maybe occasionally and probably wouldn't be noticeable on animals like dove to much but on a turkey it may.... Besides it shows up on the patterning board apparently. Lets not forget that shot are very small and lighting they hit the cardboard head on I seriously doubt it would matter much but its like shooting an arrow through silk all's well and good until the silk is moving then it pulls the arrow with it. Sure shot pellets are smaller but it all happens much faster as well

 

[smo]

Smo,

I have a high -speed photo of this. (Shot disrupted by the over-shot wad). from GT Garwood's book, "Shotguns and Cartridges" If you PM me, & give me your email I will send the photo.
I'm not connected to a picture hosting sight yet, so can't post it here.

Best regards,
Richard.

Thanks will do !

 

[smo]

Never said donut holes or that it makes big holes in a patteren just that it could disturb a pellet or two which would be enough to disturb the others... Will it make a difference on game... Maybe occasionally and probably wouldn't be noticeable on animals like dove to much but on a turkey it may.... Besides it shows up on the patterning board apparently. Lets not forget that shot are very small and lighting they hit the cardboard head on I seriously doubt it would matter much but its like shooting an arrow through silk all's well and good until the silk is moving then it pulls the arrow with it. Sure shot pellets are smaller but it all happens much faster as well

The Skychief load to my understanding is # 6 chilled lead shot.

The difference in the arrow would be velocity.

If the arrow was traveling at the speed of the shot out of a well balanced bow ,it shoots right the silk. :wink:

Put some fletching on that shot......Naaa

 

[coloradoclyde]

I suggest less keyboard analysis and more range time. A hypothesis is only as good as it is testable.

 

[smo]

Hang in there CapPopper...

I'm trying to learn something here just like you Brother.

If we don't ask ... most likely we'll never know. :wink:

I'm just glad to see some of the younger Generation showing some interest in our sport. :thumbsup:

 

[CapPopper]

Is someone willing to loan me a smoothbore? Lol its all I've got along with a fairly thorough understanding of exterior ballistics

 

[Skychief]

Never said donut holes or that it makes big holes in a patteren just that it could disturb a pellet or two which would be enough to disturb the others... Will it make a difference on game... Maybe occasionally and probably wouldn't be noticeable on animals like dove to much but on a turkey it may.... Besides it shows up on the patterning board apparently. Lets not forget that shot are very small and lighting they hit the cardboard head on I seriously doubt it would matter much but its like shooting an arrow through silk all's well and good until the silk is moving then it pulls the arrow with it. Sure shot pellets are smaller but it all happens much faster as well

The Skychief load to my understanding is # 6 chilled lead shot.

The difference in the arrow would be velocity.

If the arrow was traveling at the speed of the shot out of a well balanced bow ,it shoots right the silk. :wink:

Put some fletching on that shot......Naaa

I've used the load with good effect with #7 1/2 to #4 shot.

Best regards, Skychief

 

[coloradoclyde]

its all I've got along with a fairly thorough understanding of exterior ballistics

Eventually the rubber has to meet the road..... :haha:

Often, what looks good on paper doesn't pan out on target.

 

[CapPopper]

Just like my 357 max lol can't even tell its 3 holes at 50 and 6 inch groups at 100 cause the 200 grain bullets barely stabilize lol I couldn't prove any of it anyways cause I don't have a high speed camera all I could do is replicate the results and come to the same conclusions I've listed here so unless someone has several high speed cameras and films the shot column at multiple points in flight with standard load setups and the skycheif load we are all guessing as to why it works but the beauty is we don't particularly need to know exactly why only that it does

 

[coloradoclyde]

I couldn't prove any of it anyways cause I don't have a high speed camera all I could do is replicate the results and come to the same conclusions I've listed here so unless someone has several high speed cameras and films the shot column at multiple points in flight with standard load setups and the skycheif load we are all guessing as to why it works but the beauty is we don't particularly need to know exactly why only that it does

You've "thunk" yourself into a corner... :shake:

 

[smo]

Never said donut holes or that it makes big holes in a patteren just that it could disturb a pellet or two which would be enough to disturb the others... Will it make a difference on game... Maybe occasionally and probably wouldn't be noticeable on animals like dove to much but on a turkey it may.... Besides it shows up on the patterning board apparently. Lets not forget that shot are very small and lighting they hit the cardboard head on I seriously doubt it would matter much but its like shooting an arrow through silk all's well and good until the silk is moving then it pulls the arrow with it. Sure shot pellets are smaller but it all happens much faster as well

The Skychief load to my understanding is # 6 chilled lead shot.

The difference in the arrow would be velocity.

If the arrow was traveling at the speed of the shot out of a well balanced bow ,it shoots right the silk. :wink:

Put some fletching on that shot......Naaa

I've used the load with good effect with #7 1/2 to #4 shot.

Best regards, Skychief

So what’s your theory on why it works so well?

Any noticeable dispersion of shot in # 7 1/2 vs # 4 shot ?

Obviously more shot in the target with the 7 1/2 shot pattern than the 4, but anything else out of the ordinary ?

:idunno:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Create a test using an analog.

 

[Brokennock]

I suggest less keyboard analysis and more range time. A hypothesis is only as good as it is testable.

There ya go. All these posts of conjecture and obstinent declaration of what an individual "knows," amount to nothing but a bunch of meaningless words.

Those who have tried loading this way report that their patterns improve,,,, out of cylinder bore guns. No sense arguing why it shouldn't work, it works. Want to prove it do doesn't, head to the patterning board and burn some powder and look closely at the targets. Then, start with your words.


Does it really matter why it works?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Does it really matter why it works?

Yes! ....Understanding the mechanism by which something works, opens doors to new possibilities.

 

[smo]

I suggest less keyboard analysis and more range time. A hypothesis is only as good as it is testable.

There ya go. All these posts of conjecture and obstinent declaration of what an individual "knows," amount to nothing but a bunch of meaningless words.

Those who have tried loading this way report that their patterns improve,,,, out of cylinder bore guns. No sense arguing why it shouldn't work, it works. Want to prove it do doesn't, head to the patterning board and burn some powder and look closely at the targets. Then, start with your words.


Does it really matter why it works?

01/27/18 05:39 PM - Post#1666220

In response to RJDH

I’m not sure what happens once the shot leaves the barrel.....

But apparently the Skychief load works!

I’ve got the fixins’ on the way from Midway.

I’ll put a few rounds down range and see what my results are.






Funny thing ..... I thought I had heard that somewhere before.. :grin: