Will the bottom fall out of the custom build business?

[NorthFork]

When you have to troll Ebay or beg others for conicals if you don't cast, troll forums and ebay for spare parts, pay excessive shipping fees to get powder and caps and either buy poorly maintained used guns and get them redone or buy custom guns, things aren't looking pretty.

I agree.

 

[chorizo]

Only because of the generousness of this forum's members and wheeling and dealing have I been able to find cast bullets to try in my new Hoyt Thumpers I am developing. And I have been buying in larger numbers, because once I find something that works I may not be able to find the same ever again.

Used to be able to buy a box of something just to try it out. Now finding those things is almost impossible and once found, I snatch up as many as I can. If they don't work, hopefully I can find somebody who wants them.

 

[TDM]

I agree that we enjoy a dying sport, no amount of optimism can change the fact that the vast majority of ML shooters are old men, not just here on the forum, but the sport in general. I don’t think it will totally disappear, but in 20 years guys like Jim Kibler will be in their 60’s, both my Sons will be entering their 60’s, and most of us will be gone. Hopefully a strong core of younger shooters can keep it going on a smaller scale.

 

[david w]

I'm going to have to point out that when I was at my private range, I was shooting a flintlock. A gentleman came up to me and was impressed with my flintlock. I offered to let him shoot it. He thought it was one of the most exciting thing he had shot in a long time. I insisted on letting his kids try it, and they were absolutely amazed! You could tell by the expression on their faces. They all thanked me for the experience!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Oh Boy!

I have my asbestos lined flame suit on, so bring it!

It is my belief that within 20 years or less, traditional muzzleloading will die out to a very tiny smoldering ember akin to the 1890 to 1920 era. Only a few select diehards will cling to their precious perc. cap and flint locks. And I MEAN VERY FEW folks. No one, and I mean NO ONE gives a hoot about muzzleloading. Yes you have a growing sport of inlines, but 98% of them will NEVER graduate to something resembling a traditional arm. ATK/Vista/CCI are NOT making caps right now. Dynamit Nobel (RWS) has suggested importation of caps to N. America is not likely to happen anytime soon. The folks who make our locks, barrels and stocks are old and dying. Morbid? Yes. But truthful. NMLRA membership is falling fast. And it's not all due to the politics of the NMLRA. It's due to the average age of diehard muzzleloaders. These folks are dying off with no new blood to replace them. It's a sad state of affairs. This is bigger than a few folks building guns and if the guns will hold value. Our very sport is in the balance. Younger folks who 40 years ago would possibly have had an interest in the sport, have absolutely no interest in 'yucky' and 'gross' gun stuff. At the outdoor lodge I have been a member of for nearly 20 years now, we can't beg or bribe youth to become interested in shooting, hunting, or trapping. I know we HAVE TRIED at no cost to the youth or youth's parents. I was born in 1974. I am part of the X Generation. Firearm oriented sports die with the X generation in this Country.

On point: I agree with everything you say.

 

[smo]

Mr. Kibler makes a fine muzzleloader without question.

A Gentleman I know ( small time builder) has a backlog of over a dozen guns and his business has more than doubled in the last 5 years..
TVM, had a 200 + gun backlog the last I heard..
So if this is any indication, Mr. Kiblers product hasn’t seemed to curtail the interest in custom/ similar custom gun building..

Just the opinion of an old flintlock snob….

 

[user 48702]

I suppose we will, just like you do, but I think you mentioned the unmentionable first and we are not really discussing the unmentionables here just the politics surrounding them. Mentioning an unmentionable is not really a discussion about unmentionables. Did I use the word "unmentionable" enough here? I fired my only unmentionable just over a year ago and have no real plans to shoot it again any time soon as I discovered that I really didn't like it all that much... too much trouble to clean, doesn't fit me very well and it came with a scope that I don't really like on the gun.

"Unmentionables" I really hate the word here, but it does give me flashbacks to those preteen years when me or my buddies were able to sneak away with the latest JC Penny or Sears & Roebuck Catalog so we could look at the lingerie photos which the old folks called "unmentionables". By the way, Mr. Dale Allen Raby, I always enjoy your post and look forward to many more

 

[Flint Striker]

One issue is that in terms of firearms or anything else, muzzleloaders of any kind are mostly a luxury. Some people use their limited disposable income to engage in other luxuries, and some have too little to indulge in much more than the occasional barbecue. Whether it’s a used T/C for $400 or a custom gun, you have to have a little folding money to get into muzzleloaders. Especially if you already have modern firearms for hunting and self defense, a muzzleloader that only adds a week to the hunting season might seem unnecessary. I’m at a point where I want a couple unique historically inspired guns simply because they’re cool.

I'm going to have to point out that when I was at my private range, I was shooting a flintlock. A gentleman came up to me and was impressed with my flintlock. I offered to let him shoot it. He thought it was one of the most exciting thing he had shot in a long time. I insisted on letting his kids try it, and they were absolutely amazed! You could tell by the expression on their faces. They all thanked me for the experience!

Maybe the place to build interest is with people who already own guns or have interest in hunting

 

[david w]

One issue is that in terms of firearms or anything else, muzzleloaders of any kind are mostly a luxury. Some people use their limited disposable income to engage in other luxuries, and some have too little to indulge in much more than the occasional barbecue. Whether it’s a used T/C for $400 or a custom gun, you have to have a little folding money to get into muzzleloaders. Especially if you already have modern firearms for hunting and self defense, a muzzleloader that only adds a week to the hunting season might seem unnecessary. I’m at a point where I want a couple unique historically inspired guns simply because they’re cool. I don’t have a particular need for


Maybe the place to build interest is with people who already own guns or have interest in hunting

Not too many guys around here with "man buns"!

 

[vintovka]

When i think about custom long rifles, the display of them at the Gun Works always comes to mind. They always have some amazing items for sale. I was , however, shocked to to see prices. Even 2 years ago they were up there. I cannot imagine what they are now. My observation is that they did not have a large turnover at all while GPRs were moving fast. Given just the inflation seen to date custom gun trade has been negatively impacted. If it continues only the rich may be patrons.

 

[user 48702]

There’s some truth to that, and we are lucky to have an option like the Kibler kits available today. But there’s often a level of skill and experience that makes a big difference in how a kit turns out too. I think we’ve all seen kits that were butchered by ham-fisted nincompoops. Sometimes it’s harder to fix one than it is to just start over from scratch.

Hey, hey, hey, some home builders started out building Jim Walters Homes from kits until they had the experience to build a custom home, one has to start somewhere.

 

[smo]

In Tennessee muzzleloaders can be used during any firearm season….
It’s a matter of choice what one chooses too hunt with…

My choice is a flintlock muzzleloader be it rifled of smoothbore.

 

[oldwood]

With the country as unstable as it is, anything might occur. Be prepared the best you can , for the worst.

 

[Flint Striker]

Hey, hey, hey, some home builders started out building Jim Walters Homes from kits until they had the experience to build a custom home, one has to start somewhere.

I suppose I was a little too harsh.

 

[david w]

With the country as unstable as it is, anything might occur. Be prepared the best you can , for the worst.

What do you expect with the current administration on picking people for thier sectual prefericnes ,gender, must be gay, and color over qualifications? What can go wrong? Our male general in a dress?

 

[david w]

You have your opinions, I have mine, which will not be change.

 

[TDM]

With the country as unstable as it is, anything might occur. Be prepared the best you can , for the worst.

You are correct unfortunately for us.

 

[Tyler L]

What's wrong with man buns? You think Wild Bill never tied his hair back?

 

[sheriff john]

Custom Build Business is where we started this discussion. Never been a businessman, but realize a "business" has to return a profit to provide living wages for those reliant upon said endeavor. It isn't hard to understand that unless the worker can actually put serious coin in the bank year after year, that business won't be around very long.

Eventually, without automation in much of the "build" and/or a source of cheap labor, how the custom builder business will survive evades me. We have true artists in the field today - people capable of producing beautifully crafted firearms worthy of great admiration. Without a customer base, acceptance as an art form with resultant purchases by museums, apprentice programs/classes, or similar ...who can blame them for seeking a living elsewhere?

Brightest spot in my estimation are classes being taught to those aspiring to create their own classic firearm. Darkest spot - there aren't enough such classes available, and I guess they probably aren't eligible for student funding, scholarships, etc. as are job training programs like we see in other fields. Anyway ...the sport could benefit from sponsorship (serious dollars) if we hope to see anything in the future.

 

[Hawk54]

Mr. Kibler makes a fine muzzleloader without question.

A Gentleman I know ( small time builder) has a backlog of over a dozen guns and his business has more than doubled in the last 5 years..
TVM, had a 200 + gun backlog the last I heard..
So if this is any indication, Mr. Kiblers product hasn’t seemed to curtail the interest in custom/ similar custom gun building..

Just the opinion of an old flintlock snob….

200 people out of 335,000,000. Just sayin! Maybe five hundred rifles total a year. I would guess less. Maybe by a lot. What is the average age of the people ordering the custom rifles and pistols. I would bet it is mostly all older shooters and collectors. There is enough work for the time being to keep the builders busy but will that be the case ten years from now.