Witnessed Unsafe Behaviors

[Smokey Plainsman]

Have an accident with a firearm in Canada and risk losing your gun privileges. No 2A up here. So I am very careful to follow the rules anywhere I am, and always handle my firearms safely.

At least you have poutine.

Down hear, for some inexplicable reason, Americans have not taken to the ambrosial dish!

 

[Howard Pippin]

Yup . . .I agree . . . .

After reading some of the questions from some people on other forums, I question whether they should be anywhere near firearms!

If these people show up on the firing line at my club, I’d hi-tail it for home!

How can a person with NORMAL intelligence, NOT KNOW he just fired his rifle!!

I have a couple of muzzleloading pistols, both percussion and needless to say, I don't load them very heavy, so some years ago while out at the range 1 afternoon there were several others their shooting guns at about the same time. I had loaded this single shot pistol, and shot at the same time as others shot, and of course I was wearing hearing protection and the cap did shoot, but the charge didn't and I have no idea why because it's a straight in to the powder from the nipple. I wasn't aware of that when I went home that afternoon I proceeded to clean the gun and discovered a round ball in the barrel when I ran the cleaning patch down. Taking the pistol back out to the edge of town, I placed another cap on it and it did fire. I believe it's a 36 caliber, with out go looking, I don't shoot it only rarely, but it really did fool me that the gun had fired and I had just Missed the target which wasn't the case. The gun laid on the table for some time after I thought I had shot, so if it would've been a delayed action it had plenty of time to do so without being overly dangerous. It was a good object lesson, I did take the nipple out after and made it a little bigger, as blowback was not a problem with 10 or 12 grains of powder and it did make the gun fire more readily.
Squint

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Poutine… sorry but yuck.

 

[Pete G]

I would just as soon blow into the muzzle of a rabid dog than blow into the muzzle of a rifle.
Holding a gun to ones head is not best practice.

 

[Crockford]

I was on a muzzleloader hunt in Illinois 15 or so years ago. There were several groups hunting with this guide. He wanted everyone to shoot their muzzleloaders when they arrived at 100 yard range to make sure everyone's sights/scopes were on. The guy that shot before me had a T/C that he was shooting PRB out of and it was topped with a scope. I had never seen that set up before and was somewhat puzzled by it. Anyway he shot several time from the indoor/outdoor carpet covered shooting bench. He had several quick loaders filled with Black Powder pre-measured for his load make up. When he was done shooting he refilled his loaders back up while sitting at the bench. Thirty minutes later I arrived to shoot my modern inline with 209 primer (I know don't ridicule me) . I got set up and made my first shot. The whole top of the bench went into and instant blaze. I had on a old Cabelas fleece jacket and the sleeve on my left arm caught on fire because it was resting on the bench holding the fore stock of the gun. After dropping and rolling, my pride was hurt but I was ok. My hunting buddies thought it was pretty funny and got a huge laugh out of it. The hunting Guide and I thought my gun had misfire somehow and blew the fire everywhere. But after investigating a little and after the guy who shot before me walked back over to the range after hearing what had happened, confessed that one of his quick loaders top came off before he was able to put into his bag spilling powder onto the carpeted bench top. He said he thought he brushed it all off, but really just spread it over the bench.
I have always been a little nervous shooting from a carpet covered bench since then. Also when the Guide check the guys bag there was black powder poured out inside it. He refunded the guys hunting fee and kindly asked him to leave the premises. "Never wise to have powder on the bench!"

 

[renegadehunter]

I sometimes wonder just how much the average range masters know about muzzleloader safety. Oh boy, I can just hear the feathers ruffling now.

I've been to more than one range, not all,, where the thought was, and I say was, a muzzleloader wasn't considered loaded unless capped or primed. I've explained to more than one range officer I need to discharge my gun before the line gets shutdown for a target check. I might be partially loaded and want to complete this action and fire before sending shooters down range, some people can be very impatient. I've since adopted the practice of letting the rangemaster know right up front if I'm shooting a muzzleloader I need to clear my weapon before he sends folks down range.

I do the same at the range I go to.
They consider a muzzleloader to only be empty when the charge has been fired from the bore. It is normal for them to give one minute's notice to a ceasefire. Plenty of time even if I've just dumped powder in, but one time they did so right after I'd dumped in my powder charge and then I had a fail to fire once I tried to shoot. Long story short I had blocked the flame channel after swabbing from too tight of a jag/patch fit and hadn't fired a cap to ensure it was clear. I did not have time to remove the nipple and add powder under it and replace to get it to fire before they called the ceasefire. I of course kept my rifle pointed down range since I had just fired a cap and it's possible for a hang fire. When the ceasefire is called you have to move behind a red line and no one is allowed on the other side of it again until the range is hot again, so since I remained at my bench the range officer immediately came over to me thinking I was a noob and needed to be yelled at ha ha. Once I explained what was going on he calmed right down and understood why I had remained at my bench. Everyone was instructed to remain behind the ceasefire line and wait for me to clear my rifle.
Ever since that happened, I remind them every time I check in that it's best if they want to call notice for a ceasefire to do so immediately after they observe me fire. They always immediately understand why I ask for that and accommodate.

 

[mhb]

Poutine… sorry but yuck.

Oh! I thought he meant 'poteen' (if oddly spelled), and, being a quarter Irish, was all in favor...

mhb - MIke

 

[recurvebill]

Interesting . . . . .

Years ago, I was told the reason for blowing down the barrel was to keep the fouling moist and soft . . . .nothing to do with “clearing nipples or extinguishing embers.”

I do believe that excercise is for the "B/P cartridge crowd !! Been shooting .45-70 B/P for years , and yes , common to blow down the bore between reloads to keep fouling moist, so it does not cause hard B/P build-up at the muzzle or the breech ! My preferred method is to add a "grease cookie" on top of the powder , under the bullet , to keep fouling soft !! Works well !! However , this is a "cartridge riflle" , not a "muzzle-stuffer" !! So please , err on the side of caution and safety !!!

 

[Flintlock]

I once use the wifes good scissors to cut greased ticking into patches.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Wow, @Flintlock, that's the most unsafe action that's been reported so far.

 

[Colonial Boy]

Blowing down the barrel of a fired gun is fine but blowing down the fired barrel of a double with the unfired side still cocked is a range officers nightmare, I saw this happen on a clay target shoot.
Whilst it’s annoying to have to forego a practice that is traditional for the sake of the dunderheads, if they get shot/killed it reflects on the shooting sports and is grist to the mill of the antis.

Flintlock,
Add to that, washing a cap an’ ball revolver in the kitchen sink and being caught before cleaning the sink; haven’t been caught drying it in the oven yet

 

[Dale Lilly]

Not wearing eye protection. Friend of long ago tattooed his forehead and cheek when an oversized nipple hole hit him with cap frags and burning powder. Lucky he wore prescription glasses at the time. Always looked like he had blackheads after that.

Have had cap frags hit me when shooting next to folks on occasion. (too close together). Never got hurt, but it does get your attention.

Another friend was firing his newly-acquired .31 Colt repo at an oak log in another friend's basement. Ball bounced back. No permanent injury Lucky.

My story of personal carelessness:. My wife and I were hunting deer without success. So I got out my little .31 revolver and prepared to hunt grouse. It was very cold so, foolishly, I loaded in the pickup with US. After loading and capping I tried to turn the cylinder and it did not move. Thoughtlessly I gave it a harder twist. One cap was poorly seated and it fired. Yikes! That little ball hit the floorboard, ricocheted up to one door panel, from there to the upper edge of a window frame and down to my knuckle. Ouch! After my wife quit scolding , I fired the rest of the rounds and we went home. I have been waaaaay more careful since then. BTW, lead marks made it easy to see the ball's path. Polecat

 

[johnraleksa]

While reading another post here, part of which questioned blowing down the barrel after a shot, I flashed back to some hair raising incidents I've witnessed over the years. Here's a few of mine, share your's.

During a match shooter experienced a flash in the pan, T/C Hawken flintlock, and immediately looked directly down the bore of his rifle. He didn't stop looking until the surrounding shooter yelled warnings at him. (This guy was an engineer for a major international construction company)

Another match, despite warnings from surrounding shooters not to grab his wooden ramrod at the end then push the tight patched ball down the barrel in one swift motion another engineer ignored advice. This was causing the rod to flex to a point where breakage was bound to occur. Not too long after the shooter broke the rod while loading driving it completely through his hand.

Shooter sighting in at a the range left the plug out of his horn with a few grains trickled out the opening. He fired his shot a spark igniting the loose powder on the bench, to this day I consider it a miracle the whole horn of powder didn't blow.

Another shooter sighting in caps his loaded rifle and is waving the gun about sits down to shoot and has the gun go off, fortunately pointed in a safe direction but he'd no idea of that. Actually I see people cap or prime guns often before they are pointed down range, bad behavi0or IMHO.

I'm sure if I thought long enough I might come up with a couple more. Please share any stories you might have, they might save someone grief.

By the way, I do blow down my barrel before loading the next shot.

I use to blow on a.small amber of fire to increase the heat or flame when building a campfire. I've seen candles that are blown on increased the flame before going out or not go out. so you are blowing down a 36+inch barrel to do what? how far do you think your hot air is going down that barrel?

 

[Bill Rowe]

I can see a wonderful mushroom produced cloud escape from my from my tough hole, I would say pretty far...

 

[johnraleksa]

I can see a wonderful mushroom produced cloud escape from my from my tough hole, I would say pretty far...

I pray you are right with God then.

 

[Bill Rowe]

Have been all my life, HE has given me the great InterVision to know when my gun has fired and is empty.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The above is why I do not shoot at ranges where Range Officers are not on hand and walking the line and looking while they walk!

There is a public range not far from me I won't use for that reason. Pity, it is well designed, nice range. But, last time (and I do mean last time) I used it there were idiots who continued shooting while people, including me, went down range to change targets. They had been asked to stop shooting. Later, they went downrange without regard for the fact others were shooting.

 

[French Colonial]

I use to blow on a.small amber of fire to increase the heat or flame when building a campfire. I've seen candles that are blown on increased the flame before going out or not go out. so you are blowing down a 36+inch barrel to do what? how far do you think your hot air is going down that barrel?

Here's your sign

 

[Matthew323]

The idea that blowing down the barrel is inherently unsafe is only applicable in the context of centerfire weapons with some sort of magazine.

With the exception of double barreled weapons, 99.999% of the readily available for purchase muzzleloading rifles, pistols, and smoothbores contain only a single shot. They have no magazine of any sort where another powder charge & projectile could possibly lay in wait to be inadvertently loaded into the barrel. In addition, all currently available muzzleloading weapons available for purchase, require priming the pan of a flintlock, placing a percussion cap on a nipple, or in the case of most inline rifles, placing a #209 shotshell primer into the cavity of an inline breech plug. As a result of this fact, it is nearly impossible to shoot oneself in the head by blowing down the barrel of an already fired, unloaded weapon.

Does blowing down the barrel look dangerous, especially to those unfamiliar with muzzleloaders in specific, and firearms in general? Of course.

Over the past 20 years, or so, it has been far easier for the muzzleloading community, at the behest of the NRA in particular, to capitulate to the naysayers, the lawyers, and those members of our society that sue both companies, & individuals, for profit. As a result, very few ranges are able to obtain insurance against possible liability unless they adhere to the stipulations that the insurance companies lay down.

In our current anti-firearms society, no insurance company will issue a policy if there is the least possibility that any behavior at a shooting range is considered to be dangerous. This is even more true if something looks dangerous, even if hundreds of years of practice has proven it to be safe. Like blowing down the barrel.

In my lifetime I am not aware of any person being injured, or killed, as a result of blowing down the barrel of an already fired, empty, single-shot, muzzleloading rifle, pistol, or smoothbore.

Every injury, or fatality, that involved a muzzleloading weapon of any description, from real cannon, to hand cannon, to matchlock, to wheelock, to snaphaunce, to migeulete, to flintlock, to sidelock percussion, to inline percussion, that I have ever read an account of, or had told to me by another person, was a direct result of the loading process, the priming process, or the act of shooting.

And each, and every one of those incidents (several dozen that I am aware of) was the direct result of carelessness, ignorance, inattentiveness, hubris, stupidity, idiocy, or outright insanity on the part of the shooter.

Instead of mounting a high-powered advertising campaign when the first inklings of criticism were leveled against blowing down the barrel, the muzzleloading community in general chose to capitulate.

In the centerfire world of firearms there is no legitimate reason for placing the muzzle of any weapon near one's head/mouth, unless the person is hell bent on suicide.

The same is not true for muzzleloading, but the time to take any kind of stand that could possibly make any kind of difference as regards to blowing down the barrel is long gone.

As long as any muzzleloading forum will allow me to exercise my 1st Ammendment right to Freedom of Speech, I will stand up and defend any muzzleloader's right to blow down the barrel. It is a personal choice, just like choosing to wear a helmet when riding a bicycle, or motorcycle is.

Like I said in my above post, you can't legislate competence, intelligence, attentiveness, or common sense. Which, in my lifetime, I have found to be not at all common.

 

[TFoley]

i have a hard time understanding how a tube is any safer.
seems this will only concentrate the possible expulsion of these theoretical explosions into ones mouth/lungs.
if one is so dimly aware that he can't recall having just fired his weapon, hearing and seeing the ignition, feeling the impulse of recoil against his body, seeing the discharge of the load in a glorious cloud of white smoke, and observing the new hole in his target, Well that person shouldn't be anywhere near any weapon more dangerous then fingernail clippers.
all i'm going to say.
am going to watch something less controversial , like Alec Baldwin explaining how it wasn't his fault he shot a young girl to death.
tube
[t(y)o͞ob]

NOUN

1. a long, hollow cylinder of metal, plastic, glass, etc. for holding or transporting something, chiefly liquids or gases.

In my part of the Army, a 'tube' was a title awarded to a person operating on maybe three out of six cylinders available. Maybe even a 'dwong', another widely-used title for a person who has demonstrated a clear inability to safely operate a spoon without close supervision.