Would this rifle be ok for a awi impression?

[Grenadier1758]

When adding the forward lock bolt, use a short wood screw with a bolt head to simulate a bolt. The short screw will locate the side plate but not interfere with the ramrod.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Im wanting to present to the public. Im switching from CW to rev war era.

Ask around the with the guys that are in your group, get some feed back.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

In one book that I'm reading," Revolution Remembered", there is one story where a few British muskets were taken and given to Americans who threw away their French guns in favor of the Brown Bess. History can be a lot different than what "we" think, maybe it was easier to get RB in that caliber or ....!

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
In my opinion it does not represent a gun likely to have been encountered during the Rev War. It is an odd mix of late 18th and early 19th century British fowler styling and some sort of "barn gun".

dave

 

[kipcarter]

Hi,
In my opinion it does not represent a gun likely to have been encountered during the Rev War. It is an odd mix of late 18th and early 19th century British fowler styling and some sort of "barn gun".

dave

The bottom line is that is sorta OK but you can do better. I would try to find a more representative gun if you have the money. I have certainly seen far worst at events.

 

[tenngun]

The five civilized tribes by 1800 did have gunsmiths and many employed in restocking old guns. The use of random parts to assemble a gun may have been common. So a school May be missing.
We know of guns today that have ad hoc repairs and miss matched parts
This is just speculation not proof, but combination of styles may not be unlikely
One lock bolt had to be tried first some where. Seventeenth century guns often sported three bolts, till some bright boy said I bet two will be ok.
Make a pie. Cut a slit in the crust to let ou the steam, then two more cause mama did it that way
This is just wandering mind while waiting for the floor I just mopped to dry so I can rinse it

 

[Brokennock]

Funny how since yesterday there are at least 4 more replies parroting what a few people already said.

 

[Rudyard]

The five civilized tribes by 1800 did have gunsmiths and many employed in restocking old guns. The use of random parts to assemble a gun may have been common. So a school May be missing.
We know of guns today that have ad hoc repairs and miss matched parts
This is just speculation not proof, but combination of styles may not be unlikely
One lock bolt had to be tried first some where. Seventeenth century guns often sported three bolts, till some bright boy said I bet two will be ok.
Make a pie. Cut a slit in the crust to let ou the steam, then two more cause mama did it that way
This is just wandering mind while waiting for the floor I just mopped to dry so I can rinse it

Some 17c locks had very little inlay of the lock plates so three side nails arn't rare The famous Scottish Breadalbane gun being one known example Not to disparage your summation. you are allways ammusing. If you read Hamilton's 'Colonial frontier guns ' its full of restocked got up from old parts guns .
Regards Rudyard

 

[tenngun]

Some 17c locks had very little inlay of the lock plates so three side nails arn't rare The famous Scottish Breadalbane gun being one known example Not to disparage your summation. you are allways ammusing. If you read Hamilton's 'Colonial frontier guns ' its full of restocked got up from old parts guns .
Regards Rudyard

As said I was just speculating

 

[rich pierce]

I like the trade gun style sheet brass butt plate idea.
Nailed on would be correct I believe?
Where would one get appropriate nails?

I’ve got some

 

[smo]

For 18th century Western NC living history remember that the frontiersmen came from all over and usually brought their firelocks with them. There would have been no one style. The Washington County Militia unit and the OVTA in your area are not overly critical about your firelock. It must be safe and reliable when firing a volley. They both have a wide assortment from Pedersoli rifles to the Bess and Charleville musket reproductions to custom made fancy reproductions. They are more critical of your clothing than your firelock. I don’t mean hand stitched critical, I mean can the audience tell what you are from 15 feet away. Modern glasses, wristwatches, Levi jeans are not good. The frontiersmen came from all over and their clothes showed it. No one style firelock and no one style outfit.

If you want to understand what the Rev War era rifles that were made in NC really were, get William Ivey’s book “North Carolina Schools of Longrifles 1765 – 1865”. The book has over a hundred color illustrations of the real thing and the variety is amazing. The styles changed almost by decade as more people flowed into NC. The ‘Appalachian School’ rifles are mostly one lock bolt, no patch box, no butt plate and plain styling. The “Catawba School” (Appalachian foothills) firelocks had many one lock bolt and no butt plate. There were nine ‘schools’ of gunsmiths in NC. Each were building what the customer wanted. Even the ‘Bear Creek School” in south eastern NC made firelocks with one lock bolt and no butt plate. People bought what they could afford and the gunsmiths made firelocks for every taste and wallet.

Don’t worry about any one person’s opinion, do some primary source research and talk to your unit. All units want new members and will encourage you. Join the Overmountain Victory Trail Association (ovta.org) for $15 and come to our Annual Meeting at 10 am on January 22nd at the Rocky Mount State Historic Site, 200 Hyder Hill Rd, Piney Flats, TN 37686.

Welcome too the Forum and a great book too reference… The Kennedy School being my personal favorite of the book…

MyFamily roots have ties too Mechanics Hill area on both sides..
David Kennedy is buried less than 15 miles from where I grew up in NW Alabama..

The Kennedy gun manufacturing site in Greenhill Al was located some 400 yards from my parents graves…

 

[Twisted_1in66]

It looks more like a Fowler than a rifle

From what I can see from the small pictures, it looks like it has an octagon to round barrel, which was common in the "smooth rifle" firelock. That was not a rifle that had been shot smooth but rather it was a smoothbore made in the style and shape of a rifle. Commonly they had the cheek rest of a rifle, while "fowler" and muskets did not. Your's doesn't have that and although it seems to have an octagon to round barrel, I concur with PathfinderNC that it looks more like a fowler than anything else. The one place that is noticeably out of place for sure in the AWI is the lack of the lockplate. That washer for a lockplate is more of an 1820's thing. Also, a rear sight is an absolute MUST on a rifle.

Riflemen did not fight in the line with the muskets in the AWI because they took too long to load. The muskets would fire at a rate of 3 shots per minute and a rifle with a patched ball can't keep up with that. They were always their own rifle company and commonly used as light infantry and snipers in the AWI. They were commonly used as skirmishers firing at long range against the British troops. Every one of the rifleman could easily hit a man at 200-yards. When Virginia rifle companies were recruiting they usually held target contests using a pumpkin at 200-yards. If they still had more contestants than openings they replaced the pumpkin with an orange. Now, I've never tried to hit a pumpkin at 200-yards, but even I could repeatedly hit a 2'x3' hanging metal target (approximate size of a man's torso) after taking the first shot to see how low I was and whether I was off to right or left....but, you can't do that without a rear sight.

So I would suggest you check back on this firelock and ask a simple question such as "how many grooves does the rifling have?" That's pretty easy to count, and if it doesn't have any grooves, then it's a smoothbore not a rifle.

As far as your question on could you use it for Rev War reenacting, answer would be yes. There are some juried events where it might not pass muster but would be welcome at the Continental Line and BAR events. At 30-yards, no one is going to be able to tell if it's period correct or not. Mainly they want it ti be a flintlock.

My first longrifle was a Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle and it absolutely is NOT period correct despite Traditions claim to the contrary. It has way too much decoration on it along with a pierced patchbox and too much curve on the butt to be anything other than a post war rifle from the Golden Age of Flintlocks. It also has a Walnut stock whereas the overwhelming majority of longrifles were made with maple stocks. Nonetheless, it was a flintlock and I was never turned away in my 3 years of using it for reenactments. My second longrifle is an Early Lancaster style flintlock with a 44½" barrel. It is certainly period correct for the Rev War and may be for the F&I war too. It matches descriptions of rifles used then, although there are only a few extant examples of rifles from the F&I War and even those have questionable provenance.

So if that's all you have, I'd say go ahead and use it. You should be able to use it at most reenactments. But if you're looking to buy a rifle that could reasonably have been used in the Rev War, I'd say keep looking.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I love this sort of thread ... but ... I know almost nothing about the rifles and equipment from that era [AWI]. I am having a ball learning .. agreement .. disagreement ... all part of my process. Please do not discourage discourse of this nature. Polecat [West of the Mississippi for most of my life]

 

[Md80runway23]

It is a smoothie im sorry.

 

[Columbus]

Can you put a bayonet on it?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Welcome too the Forum and a great book too reference… The Kennedy School being my personal favorite of the book…

MyFamily roots have ties too Mechanics Hill area on both sides..
David Kennedy is buried less than 15 miles from where I grew up in NW Alabama..

The Kennedy gun manufacturing site in Greenhill Al was located some 400 yards from my parents graves…

I am building a David Kennedy rifle based (loosely) on a David Kennedy butt stock from July 1837. I may have to get the Ivey book to better document my build.

These pictures of the butt stock fragment should give the OP an indication of the color of a rifle about 50 years after his period of interest.

I haven't made much progress during the pandemic.

It's going to be a 36 caliber flintlock.

 

[Rudyard]

As student of arms & gunmaker I do notice the styles of guns used at events . But I don't critique them , Its flint it goes off . Iv'e seen a trade gun Belgium Lazareeno being used by noted published author of articles for 'Muzzle Blasts' he did Indian , it went off nobody told him no .

I went in1995 to' Do' Waterloo as 92nd Gordons the coat was Kings 8th the sporren was Victorian ,as was the Kilt my westit was 84th RHE 'I had a woolen bonnet with fish fly feathers . But the Musket was original Bess that could have been at the original Waterloo . I couldn't contact the organisation so I went in out of the blue prepared to be excepted or declined . But they where delighted ( a Musket is a musket ) so I just fell in & fought Bonney as sole OR in a Regiment of three . & camped with the 95th & KGL on a football field nr the battle site . Oh my B'net scabbard & wooden Cart box wher made of scraps of linoliem . I was on a bus stood next to a noted accoutrement maker David Spencer & he didn't spot it The rest of my Regiment was' Stumpy the Piper ' who was once in the real Gordons & Benton Jennings as supernumery Colonel . I suppose the point is its recreational hobby not a documentary ,What any soldier was supposed to wear & what happened on campaine was & is still widely at variece to the parade ground .You do the best you can .
Your Servant Rudyard

 

[troy2000]

But standards mean judgment and judgment is now a bad thing.......
At least to those who now refer to anyone espousing something they don't like as a Nazi. Though they are the 1st ones to want to erase or ignore any reminders of the horrors that real Nazis committed and rewrite history in general.

So folks, remember, no standards and no judgements... When you head to the new gender neutral F&I event, go ahead and wear polyester pink and neon green skirt and a toga for a hunting shirt, be sure to carry a long full stalk sunflower instead of a longrifle because guns are bad (this judgements is allowable), and find an environmentally responsible substitute for a powder horn (can't hurt that cow or bull), accessorize with a sustainable hemp fabric "shot pouch."
Unfortunately no short ball starter is allowed. Not for lack of historical correctness, but the act of forcing it into the muzzle symbolizes **** and male domination.




I can't stand our current "society"
We make me sick.

Wound a little tight there, are we? You've won some sort of 'special' award, for shoe horning the word 'Nazi' into a totally nonpolitical thread...

I think you should lighten up. If no one worried about standards the OP wouldn't have asked his question, and no one would have bothered to respond.

 

[tenngun]

Can you put a bayonet on it?

Many guns militia might carry couldn’t take a bayonet at that time, in that case a man needed to have a tomahawk

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

I'll probably get laughed right off this thread, but,
after reading all the posts, I need to ask anyway.

What does the letters AWI actually stand for?