For anyone considering an Indian manufactured Flintlock

Surfinator58 · Aug 30, 2022

Hey hey fellow Forum readers I found this on Middlesex Valley Trading it's a great article on the structural integrity of India made black powder guns. The scientific data is a report from a Testing Lab called HP white they are widely regarded as experts in the field of metallurgy! This document clears up a lot of misconceptions about India made flintlocks one of which is inferior materials which this laboratory clearly states is incorrect they go on to say that the manufacturing of this particular weapon which failed due to gross negligence is manufactured to Modern standards and is every bit as good as European and American made muzzleloaders when it comes to the manufacturing process and structural integrity of the components! I know there will be those who disregard this information but being from a scientific lab it is much harder to dispute although I'm sure there will be those who try to

windini · Aug 30, 2022

Interesting read.

Nobody85 · Aug 30, 2022

Great read! I’m not really interested in Indian made arms, but was always curious as to what standards they were constructed. In my opinion; Indian made barrels are probably just as tolerant, or more so than original period muskets made at the time. Things just happen sometimes and you don’t see it coming. My grandfather flowered the end of his Ithaca model 37 while rabbit hunting once. While on a hunting trip; a plug of ice accumulated in the muzzle end while they were sleeping and when he fired at a cotton tail the next morning it had a major failure. Always check your gear I guess. That re enactor should have cleaned his dang gun though. Geeze

Rock Home Isle · Aug 30, 2022

From my experience with India made muzzleloaders, they are essentially a kit gun, that needs some basic work to complete the gun and make it reliable in the field or on the range.

deerstalkert · Aug 30, 2022

those that will disregard Whites conclusions would disregard conclusions written in stone by a finger.
Whites has been the go to Lab for as long as i can remember.
granted my memory isn't what it should be, but i had a unmentionable tested by Whites in 1966.

Flint62Smoothie · Aug 31, 2022

Look at this test of a DOM barrel too! The Author fired and measured it, increasing 50-grns of 3Fg for each shot until he reached 400-grns. There was no measurable change, so he fired a final shot at 400-grns of 3Fg and 2 PRBs.

There will always be nay-sayers ...

waksupi · Aug 31, 2022

I condemned a brand new unfired India gun. Not because of the metal. Rather, because the breech plug was only threaded 1/4".

ohio ramrod · Aug 31, 2022

Not all India made guns are made by the same company. Thus different quality is likely.

Surfinator58 · Aug 31, 2022

Flint62Smoothie said:
Look at this test of a DOM barrel too! The Author fired and measured it, increasing 50-grns of 3Fg for each shot until he reached 400-grns. There was no measurable change, so he fired a final shot at 400-grns of 3Fg and 2 PRBs.

There will always be nay-sayers ...

Nice work although I dont know if I could have been that" BALLSY" pouring almost an ounce of powder in and lighting

Surfinator58 · Aug 31, 2022

Rock Home Isle said:
From my experience with India made muzzleloaders, they are essentially a kit gun, that needs some basic work to complete the gun and make it reliable in the field or on the range.

Agree

springfield art · Aug 31, 2022

Surfinator58 said:
Hey hey fellow Forum readers I found this on Middlesex Valley Trading it's a great article on the structural integrity of India made black powder guns. The scientific data is a report from a Testing Lab called HP white they are widely regarded as experts in the field of metallurgy! This document clears up a lot of misconceptions about India made flintlocks one of which is inferior materials which this laboratory clearly states is incorrect they go on to say that the manufacturing of this particular weapon which failed due to gross negligence is manufactured to Modern standards and is every bit as good as European and American made muzzleloaders when it comes to the manufacturing process and structural integrity of the components! I know there will be those who disregard this information but being from a scientific lab it is much harder to dispute although I'm sure there will be those who try to

Hey, thanks. In reading the information posted by Military History, the company that offers many types of India made firearms, they're very specific about frizzen hardening, etc. I believe the White Co. went out of business, (?) but they were/are very highly regarded. Anti-India-made snobishness is common, but I would not hesitate to use one. You're more likely to be harmed crossing the highway or driving in a big city! I've got an older (Bi-Cen era?) Bess from India that is stout as an oak. Glad you posted, Surfinator!

maillemaker · Aug 31, 2022

For me, the quality of the item has never been a concern. It's the fact that they are not manufactured to be firearms.

I'm old-school. It matters to me when someone stands behind their product. It matters to me if someone won't stand behind their product.

Rock Home Isle · Aug 31, 2022

maillemaker said:
For me, the quality of the item has never been a concern. It's the fact that they are not manufactured to be firearms.

I'm old-school. It matters to me when someone stands behind their product. It matters to me if someone won't stand behind their product.

That’s not the case with these guns…it may be the case with a couple unscrupulous importers and venders…but these guns are intended to be every bit a functional firearm.

springfield art · Aug 31, 2022

Rock Home Isle said:
That’s not the case with these guns…it may be the case with a couple unscrupulous importers and venders…but these guns are intended to be every bit a functional firearm.

Yes, Military Heritage , Middlesex Village, Veteran Arms, etc. all have guarantees. I've dealt with Veteran Arms and the owner is very nice to deal with. Anyone new to these products needs to do a bit of studying; Best success to all, says I!

smoothshooter · Aug 31, 2022

Surfinator58 said:
Hey hey fellow Forum readers I found this on Middlesex Valley Trading it's a great article on the structural integrity of India made black powder guns. The scientific data is a report from a Testing Lab called HP white they are widely regarded as experts in the field of metallurgy! This document clears up a lot of misconceptions about India made flintlocks one of which is inferior materials which this laboratory clearly states is incorrect they go on to say that the manufacturing of this particular weapon which failed due to gross negligence is manufactured to Modern standards and is every bit as good as European and American made muzzleloaders when it comes to the manufacturing process and structural integrity of the components! I know there will be those who disregard this information but being from a scientific lab it is much harder to dispute although I'm sure there will be those who try to

Mi have never owned an India-made gun.
My possible concerns would not be so much the strength of the barrel as much as the quality of all the other parts and workmanship.

Rock Home Isle · Aug 31, 2022

The first India made muzzleloader that I saw, 20+ years ago, was a hunk of junk. Swore I’d never own or buy an India made gun.

Years later I buy a beautiful single barrel 11 gauge shotgun. Just gorgeous, in my opinion…it’s India made.

So it’s not that it’s India made…it’s the OEM

maillemaker · Aug 31, 2022

Rock Home Isle said:
That’s not the case with these guns…it may be the case with a couple unscrupulous importers and venders…but these guns are intended to be every bit a functional firearm.

You'll note here that I didn't say anything about intentions. I said:

they are not manufactured to be firearms.

Rock Home Isle · Aug 31, 2022

maillemaker said:
You'll note here that I didn't say anything about intentions. I said:

So what you’re saying is that they are not manufactured to be firearms…even though they are intended to be every bit of a functional firearm?

Hmm…Do you work for CNN?

maillemaker · Aug 31, 2022

Rock Home Isle said:
So what you’re saying is that they are not manufactured to be firearms…even though they are intended to be every bit of a functional firearm?

Hmm…Do you work for CNN?

I'm saying they are not manufactured to be firearms, and intent is meaningless. So if you convert one to be a firearm, or someone else does it for you, and something goes wrong, the manufacturer is not going to stand behind it nor accept any liability because they didn't manufacture it to be a firearm.

Willingness to stand behind the product you make (or not, as in this case) matters to me. If it doesn't matter to you - great! But people need to know what they are getting into with these items manufactured to be non-functional items, and make an informed decision.

Rock Home Isle · Aug 31, 2022

maillemaker said:
I'm saying they are not manufactured to be firearms, and intent is meaningless. So if you convert one to be a firearm, or someone else does it for you, and something goes wrong, the manufacturer is not going to stand behind it nor accept any liability because they didn't manufacture it to be a firearm.

Willingness to stand behind the product you make (or not, as in this case) matters to me. If it doesn't matter to you - great! But people need to know what they are getting into with these items manufactured to be non-functional items, and make an informed decision.

I’ve gone back to another thread…and yeah…this seems to be your GOTO argument about India Made Firearms. And instead of reasonable argument, you like to parse words. There are legal reasons as to why these guns are manufactured without flash holes. It’s been explained before to you. You refuse to accept…

I don’t see that you offer much to this thread, other than a straw-man.

For anyone considering an Indian manufactured Flintlock

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