For anyone considering an Indian manufactured Flintlock

[bud in pa]

I noticed that the Muzzleloader Shop advertises a Petite Fusil de Chasse. 35 inch barrel and 7 and 1/2 pounds. Why does everybody make a smoothbore barrel as heavy as a cannon barrel, except for Rice who makes one out of 4140 I believe that weighs a tad over 2 pounds.

 

[user 48702]

I noticed that the Muzzleloader Shop advertises a Petite Fusil de Chasse. 35 inch barrel and 7 and 1/2 pounds. Why does everybody make a smoothbore barrel as heavy as a cannon barrel, except for Rice who makes one out of 4140 I believe that weighs a tad over 2 pounds.

I may regret this, but just because something is referred to as "Petite" doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be light weight, just look at some of the petite sizes in clothing. Their petite description is probably referring to the barrel being short. A 6 pound mountain howitzer would be considered petite by someone who owns a full scale Napoleon.

 

[tenngun]

So interesting that there's an India-gun specialist! Who knew? Good for him and you for posting that. I have no need right now for that service, but will file it away. With all the bad press the "Indians" get, it's nice to know someone swims against the tide and finds a niche to work in!

Hoffman reproductions rework Indian guns in to very hc pieces. There work is very concerned about getting details right across the board
Perfect? No, but fine.

 

[Texas Gil]

Went to this site. I dont see how to find prices, details on guns. When i click on a picture, just shows the item, but goes nowhere. Ideas?

 

[Texas Gil]

That I didn't know. Do recall that Loyalist Arms had posted 'somewhere' that he was helping them with converting their muskets.

The Muzzle Loader shop

You can go direct to Loyalist website and find prices there.
Loyalist Arms

Call ***** Reber, Muzxle Loader Shop (870) 929-6257

 

[wganz]

I noticed that the Muzzleloader Shop advertises a Petite Fusil de Chasse. 35 inch barrel and 7 and 1/2 pounds. Why does everybody make a smoothbore barrel as heavy as a cannon barrel, except for Rice who makes one out of 4140 I believe that weighs a tad over 2 pounds.

A lot of times it is a matter of comparison to what is Petite or light. A 7.5# FdC is light compared to the M60 pig I carried in the green machine. It is a matter of what you like or want. In example, here are two different models. Both considered 'curvy'.

One could be considered an Indian version of a FdC and the other is Rice's concept of a 2# FdC. You pay'ah your moneys and you'a takah your choices. Just depends on what your preferences are. And Living in America, you do have choices. Sorry, this song just started playing in my head.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Access Heritage: Trade Musket

 

[Trapper Scott]

I have never been a brand snob, but I always try to buy American when I can. I've owned a lot of firearms in my days from everything between Highpoints to higher-end 1911s. It all boils down to what you want versus what you can afford and how quickly you want it.

 

[tenngun]

I have never been a brand snob, but I always try to buy American when I can. I've owned a lot of firearms in my days from everything between Highpoints to higher-end 1911s. It all boils down to what you want versus what you can afford and how quickly you want it.

That is one thing.
From perdersoli you can get a charley, bess,and several WBTS guns. A fair range of styles of rifles.
From India you can get several bass and charley styles German muskets,Spanish ( look a lot like bess or charley but ain’t) blunderbusses, matchlocks, several shotguns,several fusils. A host of pistols
FDC and NWG,

 

[SNoopy22]

My first hand experience in the field and at my bench.

I’ve seen at least a dozen indian made stocks break in the field, from major to minor issues with the worst being a crack from the forward lock bolt down to the triggerguard. The issue was the bolt was too tight and the rammer engaged the bolt creating pressure. Most of the stocks that have broken were from Veteran Arms and Middlesex.

One barrel i looked over i did recommend to not shoot anymore. The owner came to me with a concern that the rammer head was catching something at the breach when cleaning. The breech plug was about three threads too short, patch was catching on the exposed threads. Fouling can build up in those threads and sometimes cause a ‘fuse’ like effect when loading, serious burns to the hand. Sent the barrel to Bobby Hoyt he welded additional steel to the breech plug.

I’ve worked on many locks from Veteran Arms and Middlesex. The internals on all of the locks needed a serious deburring and hardening. The locks are often have file marks that are polished over, causing parts to grind and leave whiteness marks. The problem with indian locks is the steel type used is not known, when i called the distributors they always said carbon steel. All parts i did a simple surface hardening including the frizzen The geometry of the locks is a different story, i often found the sear to be too big for the tumblers sear springs are placed too low.

My goodness alot of problems I've never had an issue one with mine nor my sons or in-laws. Guess we were lucky

 

[wiscoaster]

You'll be OK if you get one from Loyalist Arms or from Veteran Arms. Personal experience.

 

[deerstalkert]

A lot of times it is a matter of comparison to what is Petite or light. A 7.5# FdC is light compared to the M60 pig I carried in the green machine. It is a matter of what you like or want. In example, here are two different models. Both considered 'curvy'.

View attachment 162797

View attachment 162799

One could be considered an Indian version of a FdC and the other is Rice's concept of a 2# FdC. You pay'ah your moneys and you'a takah your choices. Just depends on what your preferences are. And Living in America, you do have choices. Sorry, this song just started playing in my head.

all three of these girls look on the verge of death. this stick of a girl looks like she just got out of Dachau. sad what is being force fed the population.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

I will always go for the thicker Woman shes not afraid of a meal and neither am I....

 

[deerstalkert]

I will always go for the thicker Woman shes not afraid of a meal and neither am I....

I was about to say those were a lot of steaks, but thought roasts was more fitting.

 

[ZUG]

I cringed when I saw the picture of that poor skinny model - all I could see in my mind's eye was a picture of Karen Carpenter - so sad and a terrible loss.

 

[Clark Badgett]

I will always go for the thicker Woman shes not afraid of a meal and neither am I....

You can have em. I like my women shaped like women, not a planet.

 

[Outwater]

For me, the quality of the item has never been a concern. It's the fact that they are not manufactured to be firearms.

I'm old-school. It matters to me when someone stands behind their product. It matters to me if someone won't stand behind their product.

Most ARE made to be firearms... specifically those of Middlesex arms are. One company makes them without a touch hole so they are not legally a firearm... and putting in a touch hole ruins the warranty. THOSE you are a fool for shooting. Pay the same for shooter.

 

[Outwater]

Hey, thanks. In reading the information posted by Military History, the company that offers many types of India made firearms, they're very specific about frizzen hardening, etc. I believe the White Co. went out of business, (?) but they were/are very highly regarded. Anti-India-made snobishness is common, but I would not hesitate to use one. You're more likely to be harmed crossing the highway or driving in a big city! I've got an older (Bi-Cen era?) Bess from India that is stout as an oak. Glad you posted, Surfinator!

I have handled may India (actually Pakistani) made flintlocks. The barrels are good. The actions often are not. I have seen some that the frizzen would not close tight, so if you went to "shoulder" the musket, the powder ran out of the pan. Some frizzers were too soft, some were brittle. Fit and finish varied. I would not order one, but if I examine one and it seemed to work well, then go for it. Now, there are different sellers. One sells a non functional one without touch hole to avoid all gun laws. If you drill a touch hole it voids all warranty. Avoid those. GET A GUN THE SELLER WILL BACK. Middlesex once was very good about free replacement parts/repairs... but he got so busy he now has a charge...

 

[smoothshooter]

I'm saying they are not manufactured to be firearms, and intent is meaningless. So if you convert one to be a firearm, or someone else does it for you, and something goes wrong, the manufacturer is not going to stand behind it nor accept any liability because they didn't manufacture it to be a firearm.

Willingness to stand behind the product you make (or not, as in this case) matters to me. If it doesn't matter to you - great! But people need to know what they are getting into with these items manufactured to be non-functional items, and make an informed decision.

I believe the only reasons the vent holes are not drilled is to bypass import-export laws.

 

[springfield art]

I have handled may India (actually Pakistani) made flintlocks. The barrels are good. The actions often are not. I have seen some that the frizzen would not close tight, so if you went to "shoulder" the musket, the powder ran out of the pan. Some frizzers were too soft, some were brittle. Fit and finish varied. I would not order one, but if I examine one and it seemed to work well, then go for it. Now, there are different sellers. One sells a non functional one without touch hole to avoid all gun laws. If you drill a touch hole it voids all warranty. Avoid those. GET A GUN THE SELLER WILL BACK. Middlesex once was very good about free replacement parts/repairs... but he got so busy he now has a charge...

I recently showed my India-made Bess to an experienced re-enactor, and he commented on how nice the lock worked; easy to cock, etc. It was mfg. in the late 1970's or so. Just my take on just one musket I got at auction in the 80's.