Looking to buy a used flintlock, how do I know if it will throw good sparks?

Grenadier1758 said:

@1General_Grant, a lot would depend on who was the manufacturer of the lock and what was needed to be done to get the lock to spark.
If it was the Miroku lock mentioned in a previous post and repairs required more than rehardening the frizzen, be aware that the lock is long out of manufacture and spare parts for all practical purposes will have to be made by hand. Fixing could be easy or could be hard. I'm not to thrilled to see the touch hole at the bottom of the pan. A more optimal position is a bit higher so the priming powder would be just about up to the touch hole. Banked away it might work.

Are the only markings the name Charleville and the fleur de lie on the lock?

What is known about the maker?

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I only see Charleville I don't the Fleur De Lie part.

What do you mean the maker? It's a Miroku and imported by Navy Arms.

Should I just buy an Indian made Charleville?

@1General_Grant,

The fleur de lis is stamped at the top of the lock plate to the left of the pan.

Parts for the Miroku will be hard to find. A search here on the Forum will show lots of topics under the subject of " Miroku Charleville".

This muzzleloading smooth bored gun has been out of production since some time in the 1980's. The picture shows a gun in what appears to be reasonably good condition. There has been work done to remove the stampings that identify it as a Navy Arms import of the Miroku Charleville (often referred to as being "defarbed", but that is another topic).

In very general terms, the Miroku guns function well. This is a 50 year old gun and based on the age and removal of markings, I don't think this gun should be evaluated as high as it is being offered and certainly not without an inspection and guarantee of return if it is not as advertised.

Edited

1General_Grant said:

Good point.


You think it's only worth 5-600?

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With 500.00 being closer

I think I remember Dave Person saying, "The Miroku Charleville is hands down the best commercial reproduction of a Rev War period musket ever made."** His opinion carries great weight.

Buying a flintlock online/long distance can be a challenge. Videos are great, but what if the flint is dull/wrong size/set up wrong? If the seller is unfamiliar with these things, the frizzen could be fine and still not spark well.

A Miroku Charleville that is in good condition is definitely worth more than $500-600. Sold for prices will tell you that.

If it were me and I really wanted it, I would see how low the seller would go and take a chance on it.

Replacement parts may be scare, but, REMEMBER: Anything can be repaired or optimized. Sometimes, though, it depends on how deep your pockets are.

** https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...u-vs-pedersoli-reputation.175959/post-2546599

Grenadier1758 said:

@1General_Grant,

The fleur de lis is stamped at the top of the lock plate to the left of the pan.

Parts for the Miroku will be hard to find. A search here on the Forum will show lots of topics under the subject of " Miroku Charleville".

This muzzleloading smooth bored gun has been out of production since some time in the 1980's. The picture shows a gun in what appears to be reasonably good condition. There has been work done to remove the stampings that identify it as a Navy Arms import of the Miroku Charleville (often referred to as being "defarbed", but that is another topic).

In very general terms, the Miroku guns function well. This is a 50 year old gun and based on the age and removal of markings, I don't think this gun should be evaluated as high as it is being offered certainly not without an inspection and guarantee of return if it is not as advertised.

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Navy Arms markings are still present.

Dusty_Traveler said:

I think I remember Dave Person saying, "The Miroku Charleville is hands down the best commercial reproduction of a Rev War period musket ever made."** His opinion carries great weight.

Buying a flintlock online/long distance can be a challenge. Videos are great, but what if the flint is dull/wrong size/set up wrong? If the seller is unfamiliar with these things, the frizzen could be fine and still not spark well.

A Miroku Charleville that is in good condition is definitely worth more than $500-600. Sold for prices will tell you that.

If it were me and I really wanted it, I would see how low the seller would go and take a chance on it.

Replacement parts may be scare, but, REMEMBER: Anything can be repaired or optimized. Sometimes, though, it depends on how deep your pockets are.

** https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...u-vs-pedersoli-reputation.175959/post-2546599

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Doesn't have any flint, I'd buy some from Track of the Wolf.

It's being sold by a gun shop, I would think their knowledge on muskets would be next to none.

It's a probate sale, he said he only has a small window to negotiate.

Could I not replace parts with ones from the Rifle Shoppe?

1General_Grant said:

Doesn't have any flint, I'd buy some from Track of the Wolf.

It's being sold by a gun shop, I would think their knowledge on muskets would be next to none.

It's a probate sale, he said he only has a small window to negotiate.

Could I not replace parts with ones from the Riffle Shoppe?

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If it is a modern gun shop I wouldn't count on any traditional muzzleloaders knowledge. When Val Forgett sp? owned Navy Arms They brought in good guns. You seem determined so go for it.

flconch53 said:

If it is a modern gun shop I wouldn't count on any traditional muzzleloaders knowledge. When Val Forgett sp? owned Navy Arms They brought in good guns. You seem determined so go for it.

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I agree, the gun shops I've been to the employees didn't seem like they knew a lot about muzzleloaders. Do you think the lock will most likely be fine?

1General_Grant said:

I agree, the gun shops I've been to the employees didn't seem like they knew a lot about muzzleloaders. Do you think the lock will most likely be fine?

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I have no way to tell for sure. Can you actually handle the gun. If so check to see if it goes into 1/2,cock and full cock easily. Then let the hammer off to make sure the trigger works. If you can't handle it make sure you have some repair funds available

flconch53 said:

I have no way to tell for sure. Can you actually handle the gun. If so check to see if it goes into 1/2,cock and full cock easily. Then let the hammer off to make sure the trigger works. If you can't handle it make sure you have some repair funds available

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No, the gun's in California and I'm in Texas. Asked the seller if it holds on both full and half cock and said yes. If it has some problems I'll have them fixed.

@1General_Grant, @flconch53 is offering some good advice. One could always take a round needle file and see if it cuts into the face of the frizzen. It should slide across the face thus indicating that it is hardened and very likely to spark.

Sounds as if @1General_Grant has made up his mind.

Grenadier1758 said:

@1General_Grant, @flconch53 is offering some good advice. One could always take a round needle file and see if it cuts into the face of the frizzen. It should slide across the face thus indicating that it is hardened and very likely to spark.

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I'll try that after it arrives.

Grenadier1758 said:

Sounds as if @1General_Grant has made up his mind.

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Well I want a 1766 Charleville, the options I got are:

This one.

A Pedersoli which I haven't seen any in stock.

A Rifle Shoppe kit which I would send off to be built.

An Indian made one.

@1General_Grant, while I do have a Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern King's Musket (Brown Bess), I would recommend the Miroku Charleville over one of the manufactured in India Charlevilles. The Loyalist Arms Charleville would be my second choice.

Grenadier1758 said:

While I do have a Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern King's Musket (Brown Bess), I would recommend the Miroku Charleville over one of the manufactured in India Charlevilles. The Loyalist Arms Charleville would be my second choice.

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Over a Pedersoli Charleville?

@1General_Grant, yes. The Loyalist Arms Charleville is a more correct copy of the Charleville even though the wood is too heavy.

Grenadier1758 said:

@1General_Grant, yes. The Loyalist Arms Charleville is a more correct copy of the Charleville even though the wood is too heavy.

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How's the lock on your Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern?

@1General_Grant, the lock on my Loyalist Arms musket is substantial. With a good flint, it is reliable. I have posted videos on the forum using 1Fg in the pan that seem as fast as when I use 4F.

1General_Grant said:

Yes I know the 4 rules of gun safety:

Always treat all firearms as if their loaded.

Keep your finger off the trigger till you're ready to fire.

Know your target and what's behind it.

Never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

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I never assume people are aware. I had a bullet pass through my leg once because of a guy that failed to follow two of those rules.

saculmot said:

I never assume people are aware. I had a bullet pass through my leg once because of a guy that failed to follow two of those rules.

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Yikes! Yea assuming people are unaware sounds like a good idea.